• PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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    12 days ago

    Is the goal to rally everyone to vote blue with this strategy?

    There’s no guarantee that the next election will even involve the Dems as a major party. The goal is to isolate and reduce the prevalence of people abstaining or making protest votes instead of serious strategic decisions because they know they’ll get feted from their core online circlejerks, and asspats from their broader online circles. Can’t fix the former, but we can fix the latter.

    How about for the next elections, we look into what leftists’ issues are, and primary someone that will actually win?

    And what happens when the leftists decide one of their pet issues is more important than winning, like they did in 2024? What happens if that pet issue is one that isn’t popular amongst the general electorate?

    We should work to put leftist candidates in, but no candidate is going to be perfect - even Mamdani already has folk on the left attacking him - it must be emphasized that purity testing is not the way forward.

    I want fascism to end as much as you do, but if we are actually serious about ending it, we have to put down our petty squabbles and actually unite against it.

    … so how is asspatting leftists for refusing to unite against it going to help, again? This whole situation is predicated in part on leftists refusing to unite with the anti-fascist coalition candidate with the furthest left platform in my lifetime, and probably since fucking Truman, against a literal Nazi candidate. If your opinion is that we need unity, encouraging self-righteous leftists in playing purity politics seems pretty fucking counterproductive.

    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Well your current path only helps the nazis, so maybe try something different.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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        12 days ago

        “It only helps the Nazis if you criticize the people who enabled the Nazis!”

        Jesus Christ. So many commenters here are determined to defend the feelings of purity politics voters who literally delivered us to the fucking Nazis and will do so again at the first opportunity.

        • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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          11 days ago

          The left enabled nazis - PugJesus

          Not the fucking liberal democrats who had the power and responsibility to get people to vote for them. It’s the minority of leftists who are truly the problem in this country, and pug Jesus will never shut the fuck up about it.

          • piefood@feddit.online
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            11 days ago

            It will never cease to amaze me when these people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money for where we are today.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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            11 days ago

            Not the fucking liberal democrats who had the power and responsibility to get people to vote for them.

            You’re absolutely right, our aristocratic overlords are the only ones with any responsibility; it’s okay for ‘leftist’ voters to let Nazis win if the Dem elites aren’t entertaining enough for them. Minority lives are only worth however much they make you feel good for voting at the ballot box.

            • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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              11 days ago

              Alright lets break this down,

              1. You’re implying there’s only two options, either vote blue no matter who or enable facism and Nazis. This removes literally all guilt and dismisses legit and continuous criticism of the Democrats actions and shortcomings.

              2. You’re straw-manning leftists arguments as shallow or selfish by making it about “how good you feel voting at the ballot box” yet our critiques are expressly aimed at policy failures of Democrats. We want healthcare, we want to end the wars, we want better foreign policy decisions, etc etc but somehow you can just sum it up as “you want to feel good when voting”

              OF COURSE I want to feel good while voting, because I have fucking morals and I do not believe we should actively hand power to people who are not going to follow through with what they say, as the Democrats have done for my entire life paying attention to politics.

              1. You’re completely overlooking accountability of the democratic party in every way, the Democratic Party decides their platform, turnout strategy and need to inspire voters to vote for them. You’re deflecting all blame they absolutely SHOULD GET away from the powerful “aristocracy” as you put it.

              2. You completely ignore structural issues in our voting system like gerrymandering, voter suppression and the two party system itself. You’re blaming individuals for a system we had no hand in creating.

              Ultimately you’re just trying to weaponize guilt, overly simplify complex issues to suit your narrative, misrepresent leftist views and evade accountability through emotional arguments.

              Look inward and be better, or more likely given your amount of posting, find a different job.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                11 days ago

                You’re implying there’s only two options, either vote blue no matter who or enable facism and Nazis.

                Uh, considering that the two options were “Blue cretin” or “The literal Nazi” in 2024 in a FPTP system where both parties had near-majority support?

                Yes. By definition, that’s true.

                This removes literally all guilt and dismisses legit and continuous criticism of the Democrats actions and shortcomings.

                Fucking what.

                Jesus Christ, do you just have an imaginary lib in your head you’re arguing with or something?

                You’re completely overlooking accountability of the democratic party in every way, the Democratic Party decides their platform, turnout strategy and need to inspire voters to vote for them. You’re deflecting all blame they absolutely SHOULD GET away from the powerful “aristocracy” as you put it.

                Would you like to remind me who elects the people in charge of the Dem party?

                Go ahead. Remind me.

                You’re straw-manning leftists arguments as shallow or selfish by making it about “how good you feel voting at the ballot box” yet our critiques are expressly aimed at policy failures of Democrats. We want healthcare, we want to end the wars, we want better foreign policy decisions, etc etc but somehow you can just sum it up as “you want to feel good when voting”

                OF COURSE I want to feel good while voting, because I have fucking morals and I do not believe we should actively hand power to people who are not going to follow through with what they say, as the Democrats have done for my entire life paying attention to politics.

                “We want these things, so we’re going to let the Nazis win”

                Fucking brilliant. Enjoy the blood on your hands, Nazi. Glad you felt good about supporting Nazis, at least. It would be horrible if you felt bad about murdering minorities.

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          Buddy, you’re doing their work for them. Divide and conquer. Right now you are the nazi.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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            11 days ago

            “Divide and conquer”

            Would you like to remind me who ‘divided’ and failed to show unity against the literal Nazis in the very real scenario we’re discussing and has already happened?

            PROTIP: It’s the ones who refused to vote against the literal fucking Nazi.

            • piefood@feddit.online
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              11 days ago

              Would you like to remind me who ‘divided’ and failed to show unity against the literal Nazis in the very real scenario we’re discussing and has already happened?

              Yes, it was the Democratic leadership, who tried to pull in voters from the party of the Nazis. All while telling the anti-Nazi voters to sit down and shut up. The Dems proudly ran around the stage with Republicans, and moved their policies to the right.

              • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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                11 days ago

                They thought enough of the left still understood how elections worked. I agree it was a dumb strategy to try going after the supposed “moderate Republicans” who aren’t fully in the cult, but the Dems having shit leaders and dumb strategies was not a good reason to help elect Trump.

                • piefood@feddit.online
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                  11 days ago

                  Who is advocating for helping to elect Trump? I certainly wasn’t. I want that PoS out more than I want the Dems out.

                  • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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                    11 days ago

                    I was referring to all of the people who are supposed allies and leftists but advocated not voting for Harris when the only possible outcome of not voting for Harris was to empower Trump. I doubt they contributed significantly to Trump winning but regardless, they did exactly what Trump wanted them to do. If you’re one of them, I hope you figure things out and do the right thing if we get a next time.

            • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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              11 days ago

              And what do you expect to gain by berating them? Right now you’re the nazis’ best friend, doing their job for them of keeping their enemies fighting each other.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                11 days ago

                And what do you expect to gain by berating them?

                What do you expect to gain by asspatting them? Other than the continuation of their behavior without consequences? I guess you’re really eager to see this scenario play out again. Anything to put Nazis in power, I guess.

                • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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                  11 days ago

                  I expect the conservatives leading the DNC to back off so we can start fixing things. If that doesn’t happen no amount of you making yourself feel better by attacking innocent people will help.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                    11 days ago

                    I expect the conservatives leading the DNC to back off so we can start fixing things.

                    Man, they’re not going to back off of their own accord, and moderates now are spooked because, especially after Trump won the popular vote for the first time, most of the party wants to go more moderate, as fucking insane as that is.

                    By letting Trump win, we’ve sabotaged the left in the DNC, not weakened the moderates.

                    If that doesn’t happen no amount of you making yourself feel better by attacking innocent people will help.

                    “Neutrality is on the side of the oppressor” - some guy who doesn’t know anything about oppression, I guess

                    People who stood by and preferred to let Nazis win to the arduous task of [checks notes] casting a vote are absolutely not innocent.

                    To make a lighter quote with the same meaning, as a Canadian poet once said, “If you choose not to decide/You still have made a choice”