• PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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    4 days ago

    I can’t say for sure but I think you’ve mistaken me for someone else.

    For… pointing out that your comment is in direct contradiction to the fact stated in the meme, the only thing stated by the meme, the purpose of the meme, which is hard to miss without failing to read the meme entirely?

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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        4 days ago

        I wonder if there’s a term for these kind of ‘unintended’ consequences to reckless foreign subterfuge

        Unless your implication is that there was ‘unintended’ consequences by the reckless foreign subterfuge of Pakistan - which would be deeply questionable, considering that the Taliban did and has offered them since nearly all their desired policy goals from supporting it.

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          4 days ago

          Well that wouldn’t make any sense at all - blowback isn’t a description of something you wanted to have happen that you didn’t expect, it’s a description of something you didn’t want to happen that you didn’t expect

          Like the militant extremists you supported fracturing into new adversarial militants that fuck your shit up later.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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            4 days ago

            Well that wouldn’t make any sense at all - blowback isn’t a description of something you wanted to have happen that you didn’t expect, it’s a description of something you didn’t want to happen that you didn’t expect

            Yes, which is why it would be a ridiculous term to apply here.

            Like the militant extremists you supported fracturing into new adversarial militants that fuck your shit up later.

            Again, where did this happen? And to whom? And what relevance does it have to the meme?

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              4 days ago

              where did this happen? And to whom? And what relevance does it have to the meme?

              The first Taliban leaders were former Mujaheddin militiamen… the same mujaheddin that were backed by the US against the Soviets

              Yes, the Taliban are different from the group the US backed in the 80s, but only because they specifically split from those anti-soviet militias against the factional war-lords who had taken power in the chaos of the second civil war.

              I think it’s a little weird to be passionately dismissing the US’s role in setting the stage for the taliban, though. I didn’t think I was disagreeing with the meme, but it does seem like you really don’t like the implication that the US bears some responsibility for what happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                4 days ago

                The first Taliban leaders were former Mujaheddin militiamen… the same mujaheddin that were backed by the US against the Soviets

                And the overwhelming majority of opposition to the Taliban were former mujahedin. I don’t really know what you think that proves?

                Yes, the Taliban are different from the group the US backed in the 80s, but only because they specifically split from those anti-soviet militias against the factional war-lords who had taken power in the chaos of the second civil war.

                As demonstrated in detail elsewhere here, that’s not even close to fucking true. But playing dumb is your specialty, isn’t it? You do this all the fucking time.

                I think it’s a little weird to be passionately dismissing the US’s role in setting the stage for the taliban, though. I didn’t think I was disagreeing with the meme, but it does seem like you really don’t like the implication that the US bears some responsibility for what happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew.

                Ah, so your argument is more of a “If only the Soviets were allowed to massacre Afghanistan with impunity, we wouldn’t have to deal with this pesky BLOWBACK of Pakistani imperialism in Afghanistan!”

                Lovely.

                • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  4 days ago

                  I don’t really know what you think that proves?

                  Nothing… I’m not claiming any kind of political alignment here, only that the taliban shares an origin with the mujaheddin

                  that’s not even close to fucking true.

                  You detailed the relationship between the Taliban and the ISI, which I don’t disagree with. But Mullah Omar was absolutely a part of the Hezb-i Islami Khalis, and then later formed the Taliban. You can disagree with the relative influence of that relationship with the US and mujaheddin if you want, but the relationship is there either way.

                  But playing dumb is your specialty, isn’t it? You do this all the fucking time.

                  I don’t know who you think I am, but I haven’t had that many interactions with you. I’m a little confused by the hostility.

                  “If only the Soviets were allowed to massacre Afghanistan with impunity, we wouldn’t have to deal with this pesky BLOWBACK of Pakistani imperialism in Afghanistan!”

                  Jesus fuck, not at all, and where you got that conclusion from is completely beyond my comprehension. The soviets share just as much blame for the chaos that ensued after they withdrew as the US does, and Pakistan bears responsibility, too. Arming militant fundamentalist groups as your method of intervention doesn’t come without consequences.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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                    4 days ago

                    Nothing… I’m not claiming any kind of political alignment here, only that the taliban shares an origin with the mujaheddin You detailed the relationship between the Taliban and the ISI, which I don’t disagree with. But Mullah Omar was absolutely a part of the Hezb-i Islami Khalis, and then later formed the Taliban. You can disagree with the relative influence of that relationship with the US and mujaheddin if you want, but the relationship is there either way.

                    So if I were to say that fascism shares an origin with socialism, you would say…?

                    I don’t know who you think I am, but I haven’t had that many interactions with you. I’m a little confused by the hostility.

                    Playing dumb is your specialty, like I said. We’ve had numerous encounters wherein you’ve pissed away time making vague and contradictory claims, walking back and claiming not to have walked back, and in general feigning ignorance.

                    Jesus fuck, not at all, and where you got that conclusion from is completely beyond my comprehension. The soviets share just as much blame for the chaos that ensued after they withdrew as the US does, and Pakistan bears responsibility, too. Arming militant fundamentalist groups as your method of intervention doesn’t come without consequences.

                    “You armed the people who ended up fighting the Taliban; therefore, you’re responsible for arming the Taliban!”

                    Brilliant. Just brilliant.

                    So, short of “You should have let the Soviets massacre Afghans unimpeded because some Afghans were religious extremists”, what’s your argument here?