• Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
    1·
    11 hours ago

    surely you know that prisoners in wartime go instead to the frontline? gulag occupancy in fact decreased during the great patriotic war despite an initial increase from including petty criminals.

    let’s compare 1942. 157,514 total prisoners. 111 executed, 912 dead otherwise. that’s 0.65%. for 1944, 130,805, 63, 756, 0.63%.

    their life expectancy almost instantly doubled from pre-communist times

    that’s a LOW bar. pre-communist times are a very low bar. nobody here argued that russian life was better before the sfsr

    has a lesser need for incarceration

    when were we comparing that? when were we justifying the US?

    (It’s the highest incarceration rate in the world, and by a looooooong way.)

    among colonizing countries definitely, but among the rest of the world no. El Salvador has nearly triple that of the US, and surprisingly Cuba is second. and I definitely prefer the Cuban state over the US (though not to live there due to the sanctions).

    what are we even arguing over? i sense we have a different conception of the topic at hand due to how much seemingly irrelevant stuff you bring up

    but did not have the benefit of communist central planning

    again what are you talking to? where’d your series of questions about the purging of the statisticians go? if what you want is to expand the argument, that chart looks quite similar to that of south korea

    • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      4 hours ago

      I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say in the first part

      that’s a LOW bar. pre-communist times are a very low bar. nobody here argued that russian life was better before the sfsr

      The literal entire argument is that Russian life didn’t improve enough under the USSR as compared to a fictional anarchist alternative, such that communists are indistinguishable from fascists. That is the entire crux of the argument in this 400+ comment section. If it’s a low bar, then how come no non-communist third world country ever had even close to that kind of explosive increase in life expectancy and quality?

      when were we comparing that? when were we justifying the US?

      I don’t understand what you don’t understand. You brought up Texas incarceration and death rates, and their contemporary characterization as horrific, and then compared them to USSR imprisonment rates as some kind of gotcha that the communists were unusally inhumane in their prison system even compared to the barbaric US, so I pointed out that as a beneficiary of imperialism the US doesn’t need as brutal punishment in its own territory, it can reserve its oppressive violence for all its vassal fiefdoms in South America - such as, for instance, El Salvador.

      where’d your series of questions about the purging of the statisticians go?

      Huh??? I asked those questions and you just didn’t respond to them or provide any evidence for your assertion, you just moved the conversation on to different points and I followed along. You and the other guy have a habit of just ignoring questions you can’t answer so I just let it slide. But again, what are you talking about purging statisticians? You know that word has a specific meaning of being expelled from the communist party, right? It’s not just a synonym for ‘being killed’, so what statisticians are you talking about that were in the communist party and got expelled for, I’m guessing, “showing statistics that Stalin didn’t like”?

      • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
        1·
        1 hour ago

        im gonna try and any% speedrun this response

        I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say in the first part

        atl you understood the second paragraph, right? i was stating the US prison statistics from the similar period you asked for

        The literal entire argument is that Russian life didn’t improve enough under the USSR as compared to a fictional anarchist alternative, such that communists are indistinguishable from fascists.

        firstly no it’s that it still went into many of the governance horrors capitalist states are criticized for

        secondly how does “oh look at that it was so much worse before” manage to give you anything to prove that

        imprisonment rates

        i never compared or even gave you an imprisonment rate. that’s amount of prisoners divided by population. i gave the prison excess mortality rate, deaths divded by prison population. that’s very different

        as a beneficiary of imperialism the US doesn’t need as brutal punishment in its own territory

        i don’t understand this logic. what makes brutal punishment necessary when you don’t do imperialism?

        you just didn’t respond to them or provide any evidence for your assertion

        yes i did did you even click on the link what did you think it was talking about