- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
Cross-posted from “TRUE communism!” by @[email protected] in [email protected]
Cross-posted from “TRUE communism!” by @[email protected] in [email protected]
You don’t get it we’re not leftists, we’re red fascists.
Also
So on Hexbear, attacking communism as capitalism is not allowed, but attacking anarchism as fascism is?
Nobody attacks anarchists as fascists, they attack illiterate “anarchist” liberals who spend all their time crying about “red fascist tankies” as being the ignorant morons that they are, especially when they coincidentally and repeatedly repeat literal U.S. State Dept propaganda in their efforts to argue with the “red fascists” i.e. the fucking uigher genocide hallucination that you fucking morons are still on about
No, he’s referring to communists there.
Ah, I misunderstood. Sorry.
I think your reading comprehension is poor, or you’re referring to something outside of this thread. This is definitely not allowed in Hexbear.
I think so. It’s a tankie space. Their shit posts still average high qualitu.
We’re not a “tankie” space, we’re a left-unity space where most of our users just happen to be MLs. We actually have rules against sectarianism and left-infighting.
We have a fair number of anarchist users, though to be fair they’d probably also be called “tankies” by most online anarchists as they’ve got more nuanced positions on AES than you guys.
Happens to me all the fucking time lmao.
shit on this account I’ve been accused of being a tankie for having positions like: hating and fearing china is pretty stupid given their lack of militarism, massive improvements in quality of life for the working class, and frankly astounding technological progress in sustainable technologies.
Apparently wanting to end hierarchy and being sceptical of stateist projects means I have to ignore when they work at all and be constantly at war with like the entire world for not being pure enough. There’s enough shit keeping me busy in my own life to make up drama about the spooky red threat that seems to be a surveillance state like… every other highly industrialised society right now.
If they find my hexbear account I will be thrown out of town ;)
We don’t ban hexbears just because they’re from hexbear. I’ve known you’ve had an account there for years.
Well of course you know
It is a joke about the content of said account.
Lemme get the anarcho-police to check it on the tankiemeter…
I once said something about hating tankies and got name-checked into a thread there. I explained that I don’t care for authoritarianism of any kind, and one mouthy punk kept trying to rile me up.
Y’all got a reputation for a reason.
(There were others who were chill about it, but people tend to remember loud assholes better than chill people.)
Hexbear and its influences have been a disaster for the fediverse.
How would left unity work?
Anarchism and MLism are so different from each other that any unity between supporters of either would be short lived. Like the unity between the USSR and the USA during WW2.
I don’t agree with that at all. We all have fundamentally the same goals, just slightly different ways of organising and reaching them. There are far, far more things we agree on than disagree on, and on the latter we’re able to disagree on things respectfully.
You’ve also got to remember, we’re not revolutionaries or a party, we’re just people on a webforum. If a revolution was suddenly magicked out of thin air we might have a falling out, but until then what’s the problem? Most of our posting now is just criticism of our current world anyway, which is something we’re all very much aligned on.
Sure, but those methods are severly different.
FWIW: I think left unity is pretty important now, during another rise in fascism, but I don’t think it will last long.
That’s a really good take, actually.
Personally, I dont think its important if left-unity its temporary or permanent so long as it last long enough to overthrow the capitalist system.
Glad we’re on the same page on this at least
As a wise kangaroo once said
Since when was it anarchist’s goal to enslave the working class to party bureaucrats?
Yeah true, that’s quite different to the anarchist goal of burning down every structure and having us all live in a state of violent primitive chaos.
Oh wait, I’m not an idiot so I don’t actually believe that.
Oh, no… seems to me that you tankies just love forcing the working class to contend with a “state of violent primitive chaos.”
Hey, you know what? I figured out why you tankies don’t just use AI to write all your claptrap secular Catholocist dogma for you - it’s because you’re afraid AI might actually be more coherent than you are.
In my ideal postrevolutionary society, there would be special political/economic zones where anarchists could live and try to build a model for the society of the future, sheltered from external threats by the communist state. I don’t think anarchists and MLs necessarily need to be at odds.
That’s an interesting idea
You realize that that idea basically means that anarchists would have to help MLs seize power their way, and then hope they stick to their promises (because they’re then at their mercy). For me, It’s an absurd idea on its face and only serves to make us willing tools.
You should actually look up the history of and contemporary anarchism in socialist states. Hell Mao himself was in anarchist circles in his college days. You just like to stir shit for no reason at all. This meme you posted is not a principled critique and is just a tired liberal trope. As anarchists we should do better. But frankly I expect nothing better from you given my past encounters with you.
Soooo… a tankie space.
No? We’re majority ML but we have lots of anarchist members? Unless you’re saying anarchists can be tankies or something?
Terminally online radlibs call me a tankie too so apparently yes…
Oh, look… an adherent of factory-owner ideology called me a “radlib…”
Your MOM gas a more nuanced position on AES than us.
Would she consider a lecture series?
Or… Or maybe an intimate one on one explainer over coffee?
She’s a liberal but she’s well-travelled so she unironically does.
…well?
I’m too much of a coward to askher myself.
Why would I want a coward as my new dad?
No, thats the beauty of it! I’d just be a secondary fallback stepmom.
Yep, Russia did the thing.
In the meme image.
Authoritarian Communism broke, then it flipped back to Authoritarian Capitalism.
Yep, it had enemies.
Yep those enemies were very involved in helping it to break.
But this still is what happened.
Yep, it took a while.
Sorry the comic is ~80 years long?
Horrible line of reasoning. Anarchist projects have all reverted to capitalism much faster than the Soviet Union did.
Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash. I.e they’re internally consistent.
Imagine equating a state and related movements that massively improved working-class people’s lives, including in terms of life expectancy, literacy rates, including by providing guaranteed housing, universal healthcare, fundamental women’s rights that are taken for granted today, and which not only fought off settler-colonialism in the form of the Lebensraum and the Holocaust, but also helped many other countries liberate themselves from European powers, with things like Germany under NSDAP, the US, Pissrael, and NATO in general.
Okay, so stop being a literal child and draw that thought out to its logical conclusions. I did that fifteen fucking years ago and realized, oh, hey, China isn’t Literally Evil for Doing Authoritarianism. They exist in a world with the fucking CIA, and all the feel good anarcho idealism in the world isn’t going to protect them from their literal fucking terrorism.
If you actually use your fucking brain you’d understand that it matters what “authority” is used “for.” Let me spoil it for you- using it to defend a revolution from internal and external reaction and imperialism IS GOOD, UNLESS YOU’RE A FUCKING REACTIONARY.
You don’t need hierarchies to defend against imperialism
You sure you don’t need those hierarchies buddy? You suuuuuuuure?
Yep, I don’t want to help bring about a system which will only revert to capitalism on its own.
So you’re happy with a system that will revert to capitalism, your quibble is just over whether it’s taken apart by internal or external forces. Yeah, real coherent ideology you got there.
this is why people like me just laugh and call you a fucking child, because like, what are you even on? What does your revolutionary society look like? How is it organized?
You just out yourself as an ignorant, illiterate fuck who doesn’t realize that political anarchism is about the abolition of unjust and arbitrary hierarchies, not some idealist bullshit ass “we need a non hierarchical society” and a belief that you just get there by fucking magic. You are going to need to have a political organization of some kind, and guess what? The establishment of that is inherently fucking hierarchical!
What makes it good is not being a hierarchy based on fucking nobility or property ownership or oppressive class relations, dipshit. You are better off jerking yourself to death in your goon cave than chasing after some platonic ideal of A Lack of Hierarchy when here in the fucking real world the bourgoisie, fascists and cops are closing the noose around your neck and mine.
I’d tell you to grow the fuck up but I know you’re just going to keep crying about authority and hierarchy while every single fucking lying weaselly ass statement from your mouth assists the imperialists and the bourgeoisie, whether you know it or not
There’s entire books about that. If you want to criticize something so passionately, you should understand what you’re criticizing and read up on theory. Or ask your local (instance’s) anarchists.
no shit, and none of them say “and we abolish all hierarchy and live in peace and good vibes” like you and dipshit wanna pretend
Tankies :“immature”, “anakiddie”, “liberal”, “reactionary”, “ignorant”, “waaaa”
Also tankies : “what about that left unity doe?”
A tale repeated since the nonsense that is “on authority”
But thanks for reinforcing to the audience why one just not align with (nevermind trust) MLs.
They’re not calling anarchists idiots. They’re explicitly referring to you who started being combative right out of the gate with this dumb fucking meme
the only good revolution is the one that fails
The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.
But again, you and and the people on the comm you named after yourself are the ones hypocritically positing that any socialist project that fails is evidence that that project’s ideology inevitably leads to capitalist takeover. None of the “tankies” on Hexbear are saying that because it’s asinine, but if you actually believe it, to be ideologically consistent, would require condemning anarchism also.
Deeply unserious
Yeah, right… it had absolutely nothing to do with the batshit-insane economic and social blundering of the CPSU.
Nothing at all.
It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time. It went from wooden hand-drawn plows to spaceflight in a single generation, while defeating the most devastating invasion in human history. The nation once called “the India of Europe” became the first interplanetary civilization.
Then, after the entire collective might of the capitalist world had slaughtered dozens of millions of the bravest and most committed communists, it started falling apart because liberals took over. It was dissolved illegally, against the wishes of 70% of the population that voted in a referendum to keep the Union, in a bloody coup that killed over 2000 people fighting against its destruction. By the end of the 90s there had been 7-10 million excess deaths above the death rate of the 80s in Russia alone, making it one of the worst non-war human-caused humanitarian disasters of all time.
In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes, whereas you are a grotty little chauvinist from the imperial core who doesn’t want to improve the world, because if you did you would want to win, and if you wanted to win you would read history, and if you read history you would come to the same conclusion.
Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.
Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?
Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?
Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?
You mean… unlike you?
Motherfucker okay this is where I get heated.
You have never read any anti-colonial theory in your life and it shows. Fucking cracker “anarchists” I swear to god.
Yes the USSR was the first country to land a probe on a moon that wasn’t ours.
Source?
Counterrevolutionaries will be something we have to contend with until we abolish capitalism globally.
You want to lose?
It’s colonialism when you teach peasants how to read and give them telegraph poles and combine harvesters. You are a fucking stupid historically illiterate imperial core roleplayer piece of shit, the USSR was the first anticolonial nation in history, they fought on the morally correct side of nearly every anticolonial struggle in the world in the 20th century. As just even a single example, in 1961, the USSR used its veto powers in the UN to stop a forced ceasefire, allowing the Indians to invade and liberate the Portugese-held island of Goa, literally kicking out colonialists.
But it’s interesting that you seem to agree with the representative of Portugal that the USSR has ‘shamed the whole of mankind’.
The USSR created the first artifical satellite, put the first man in space, put the first woman in space, conducted the first spacewalk, landed the first spacecraft on the moon, landed the first spacecraft on another planet (Venus), built the first space station and landed the first spacecraft on Mars. The first black man in space was an Afro-Cuban man who went on in a Soviet rocket. Eight of the first ten nationalities in space were from the ‘eastern block’. ‘Astronaut Barbie’ was released by Mattel two years after the first Soviet woman went to space, and twenty years BEFORE the first US woman would.
Anyway I’m tired of reading your overwrought self-righteous self-important reddit liberal style of argumentation, all form and no substance, so just feel free to go read a book (assuming that’s something you’re actually capable of) and argue with that instead.
Disengage
Internally consistent, externally non-existent
If your ideology can’t stand up against outside forces then surely it’s just not a good ideology?
I was an anarchist myself for a long time, and I’m still really sympathetic to anarchist ideas and movements, but for me it’s just hard to see it as anything but utopianism when, despite all the good intention and internal consistency, it just can’t ever seem to survive contact with the real world.
So…
Well at least communism has consistently survived contact with the real world.
Oh, wait.
Well no, see, those dont count, because reasons.
Maybe if you weren’t a complete tool if the capitalist, you would understand this, but i cannot explain. Because it’s secret to people who paid attention through all of ‘capital’. Which you didn’t or obviously you’d agree with me and there would be no need to explain.
Yeah… the main one being the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
This is so disgustingly wrong it actually pisses me off. Our enemies were fascists and imperialists for the most part. Fuck dude Lenin even aided Makhno.
https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/Anarchism/comments/11ecblx/marxists_betray_anarchists/
The commenters on that site use Pol Pot as an example lmao. I cannot take them seriously.
Also this drivel.
Anarchism is a branch of communist thought, socialism is a branch of communist thought, “libertarian” was a rebranding of anarchism originally in places where it was made illegal to disseminate anarchist literature and speak of anarchist philosophy. So libertarian socialist is an oxy-moron and no less contradictory than American modern Libertarians who simply want corporations to supplant the state.
Like it or not we have to take a diversity of tactics to build duel power and engage in a prolonged defensive war against the forces of reaction and that means aligning with others whose ultimate goal is communism. This goes doubly so within the imperial core. Weakening the core takes pressure off of besieged socialist movements in the periphery, and support for anti-imperialist forces against the west makes the empire less capable of repression at home having to exert force on more and more fronts.
Actual anarchists are teaming up with people of all sorts of tendencies and groups like Palestine Action are quite diverse. The people doing the most effective below ground action aren’t arguing about 100 year old mistakes and ideological hangups, they are learning together from them and doing what needs to be done.
What are you going to do about it, tankie?
There is no “our” here, tankie - you are the enemy here.
Really? Is that why the Bolsheviks perpetrated mass-slaughter in Ukraine to repress the Makhnovists? To “aid” them?