Lets build more ICE-tracking apps
Was curious so Iooked up the app’s site.
Apparently the devs claim they can’t release it on Android because “There’s no way to be anonymous on the play store”, but it’s even more impossible to be anonymous on the platform they’ve released. That’s how you know the developer is incredibly stupid and/or shady as hell- because they’ve never even heard of Fdroid?
Makes me think the app is a troll/trojan horse (not as in infection, trojan horse as in it has alterior motives)
The Drumpf crew “losing it” over the app just makes it more questionable. They love to create a firestorm so people talk about the thing “they definitely don’t want you to use!!” to get people to do things…
they mentioned that its because push notifications require device id and that would make it easy to be tracked if aubpoenaed.
https://bsky.app/profile/iceblock.app/post/3lmzykc7rb42d
edit: for the record i don’t agree; i’m just saying what they said on bsky
I’m not sure if this guy is just dumb or it’s a honeypot.
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As mentioned elsewhere, they don’t use device ID
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Android is the only platform that supports alternative push methods
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Apple knows everyone who downloads this app, which is subject to subpoena
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The gov has been collecting push notification data from both Apple and Google for a long time. It would be as simple as knowing when notifications went out and then comparing timestamps to figure out who is using the app.
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The app is closed-source
It would take significantly more mental energy on the part of the user but it would be far safer (which is extremely important in this specific case, as the dev agrees) to distribute through F-Droid and then use some other UnifiedPush implementation, as many Android apps already do. Anyone using this app is painting a huge target on their backs for the current authoritarian state.
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Interesting, especially with GrapheneOS people shooting it down immediately to call them out on their baloney.
Push notifications though GMS don’t use the device ID; they use a generated GCM registration ID that occasionally rotates. Who knows what Google uses internally to associate GCM reg IDs to users, but to overly state that it uses device IDs is simply not correct.
I’m not suggesting push notifications are inherently secure because it’s impossible to make that determination from the outside. But their assessment is incorrect and the same privacy concerns apply to Apple.
I’m pretty certain push notifications have been shown to be grossly insecure actually…
This is a really good comment
Thanks. Remember to always question everything. Especially when that -something- sounds like BS.
There’s no way to be anonymous on the play store
Aurora store.
I was quoting them but you’re right-or Fdroid ofc
Twenty years ago tracking armed thugs in ski masks would have been called a public service.
This gives honeypot vibes. IOS only with no way to access via browser?
Sweet. I appreciate that their reaction has Streisand-effected this app into my awareness.
Shouldn’t be an app. It should be a site accessible using vpn and private browsing with an appropriate browser. Nobody should have to worry about the Stasi finding the app on their phone regardless of the situation.
While this is true, most people are not so tech savvy, maybe giving an option to mask app Icon to user choice can help it hide better.
going to a website (not tech savvy enough for this) vs going to the settings on an app and select a new icon (yay anyone can do it)
While I agree, in this particular case I think it’s a good idea.
Can’t it be both?
Websites don’t support push notifications in a way that normies understand. They’re also generally unreliable. And these are time-sensitive matters.
I love how the Streisand Effect works. They just made this app the hottest thing out there.
It’s closed source, and the build and publishing pipeline isn’t transparent.
For me that makes this no different than a potential ICE honey pot
can’t even find “Joshua Aaron” on linked in or github. feels a little sus. my moneys on honey pot
Has to be shit is glowing
which is exactly what this whole ‘meltdown’ frame for the pr hints at. republicans know how to use publicity stunts to get what they want.
Haven’t followed it much (EU), can you elaborate who did what and what can be done potentially?
Haven’t followed it much
Oh lord, where do I even start? It’s an entire shit show. And not the usual political shit show. A really scary one that’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t even really feel safe talking about it
the honey pot for what? people who don’t like ice? that makes no sense
Maybe they’re looking for pretense for more authoritarian action on digital services/internet. We already have a bill in process that opens the door for government censorship of the internet right? They could be priming the public to be ok with them stepping in to shut apps/sites down.
Secret police would probably have an interest in lists of people downloading an app tracking their movements no? Particularly if it was downloaded to a mobile tracking device they carry with themselves at most times.
no I honestly don’t know how this would help them
Using the app becomes obstruction or terrorism. People who do that will also get sent to camps.
It seems far fetched but it’s really not. After all, nobody would step to stop either of those things from happening.
if they can track those who are against them, it’s easier to eliminate dissidents
They could argue that attempting to track ICE is illegal, and all those using the app are to be arrested and tried for their crimes.
They’re using the cops’ favorite and extremely generic catch-all crime: “obstruction of justice”.
That expression LOL
Obstruction of whatever cops do, OK.
But usually it has nothing to do with justice.
They could try not being brown shirts. Problem solved.
I love the quote about how it is putting federal agents in danger…and I sort of think that they are doing that themselves.
Good, those agents are playing a dangerous game and you should know if you play with fire your going get burned. Its a matter of time before they try to kidnap the wrong person, and that person decides its better to die in America then it is to go to a camp then deported.
which is great for necessitating the need to give absolute militant power to police forces. It’s like… the PR of him having a ‘meltdown’ is for a reason or something.
PR for who? Who is on the fence about ICE?
You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact. This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.
You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact.
What fact? People’s lives are horrible BECAUSE of ICE. They’re so horrible that I considered that nobody would be “on the fence” because either you drank the Fear-Of-Crime Kool-Aid or you are horrified at what ICE agents are doing to children and poor people. The entire reason there are people who don’t think ICE needs to be abolished right now is because Fox News and other right-wing grifters have pumped out propaganda making it look like there is a “crime wave” like it’s the Reagan Era, and people living in the Suburbs not knowing what the outside world is like. Not only do they choose to portray a crime wave, they have to do it, because otherwise people would see their president as the power-hungry maniac he is rather than a savior of order. No riot is actually making people miserable, only the police-reported, sensationalist coverage of protests.
This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.
That’s just the American Suburbs. I hope American states can secede to change this. Meanwhile, in Vietnam, there is a high-speed rail being built. This is not driven by disgruntled people, people with no future, or people who choose not to hate others who have nothing to do with it. Neither is Iran defending itself from an imperialist regime, nor Australia having their left-wing Labour party completely outdo the right-wing Liberal party. America is the villain here.
Probably lots of people in red states. Farmers for instance, people who generally buy the Republican bullshit, but may personally rely heavily on immigrant workers. ICE puts them in a really tough position.
I have experienced some recent schadenfreude with farmers who no longer have workers to harvest because ICE scared them away.
“[the app] basically paints a target on federal law enforcement officers’ backs”
When it comes to painting targets on backs, better them then innocent civilians.
Lol.
R’s have not only painted targets, they’ve made ads, and joked about killing civilians and anyone other than MAGAts
Greene in an ad for her 2020 campaign cocked an assault rifle as she warned “antifa terrorists” to stay out of her district
Masters, a venture capitalist and favorite of Trump-loving billionaire Peter Thiel, has featured guns prominently throughout his primary campaign. He responded to President Biden’s promise on Monday to crack down on “ghost guns,” which are homemade and untraceable, by tweeting a picture of a “ghost gun” he recently built himself. “Very legal & very cool,” he wrote.
https://www.indy100.com/politics/eric-greitens-campaign-ad-gun
“There’s no bagging limit, no tagging limit, and it doesn’t expire until we save our country.”
“I look forward to the day that Democrats are so rare, we have to hunt them with dogs,”
Edit: and for the record, Blake Masters is a piece of shit buddy of both elon and Vance and they are all tied together in their hate for democracy and love of Curtis Yarvin and the plot to destroy western civilization. (Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets)
Is the app foss?
No, and even worse, its only for apple devices lmao. These kids are so unserious in their activism it would be funny if it werent so sad. If shit hits the fan, this stuff will go down instantly and im sure it has no backup plan for a Tor based or p2p service. Activists in the US should start using Briar. This situation is exactly what it was made for and people have to get their tech game up fast or they will be done for. Get a shitty 80$ android phone if you only have an iphone. Install a panic trigger app that will wipe the phone if you are in trouble.
On ICEBlocks website it says:
Modeled after Waze but for ICE sightings, the app ensures user privacy by storing no personal data, making it impossible to trace reports back to individual users.
Which worries me, because if its closed source then thats a worthless promise and actually makes the app a perfect candidate for a honeypot or backdoor.
apple is the majority of the market, no? so if e.g. a company wanted to get a product out for a client asap, apple would be the market to aim for.
Turn of your capitalism brain ffs. This is not the place for companies and markets. If there is a financial interest then the app is worthless by design. iOS is not a trustable platform for anything security related so obviously you shouldnt use it for anything that concerns your physical safety. Dont forget, apple will always bend the knee to governments in the end.
I don’t know, don’t Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments? I personally have even less faith in the security of android based devices or Android phone manufacturers.
Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments
Only when it comes to individual consumer cases like terrorists or other crimes. When it comes to large scale political movements then they are very quick to lend authoritarian governments a hand, see for example their cooperation with the CCP to suppress the Hong Kong protests. But they have also always cooperated with police to some degree and this has only gotten worse.
Forbes for the lack of a better source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2024/10/09/apple-sells-privacy-to-consumers-but-its-quietly-helping-police-use-iphones-for-surveillance/
There’s a widespread perception that Apple has a combative relationship with law enforcement after the company refused to help the FBI hack into the iPhone of the shooter in the 2015 San Bernardino terrorist attacks. But since then, it has ramped up collaboration with police through the conference and other meetings with agencies at both Cupertino HQ and its Elk Grove campus, as well as a variety of previously unreported projects helping cops use iPhones, Macs, Apple Vision Pro and CarPlay, the emails show. Most of these projects have not been announced publicly.
Apple declined to comment.
People just love believing in Apple for some weird reasons.
I am the biggest Apple hater and they are absolutely not immune from criticism, but they are generally a more private company. The CCP has their hands deep in every corporation on the planet so none of them are immune from that influence. Apple pushed back when the government demanded they dismantle encryption (Google doesn’t even offer this) for CSAM. They were also the first to disclose the government push notification collection information.
You see “market” and think capitalism. By market, I meant, market-share. More users of apple products than android. So if a developer wanted greater reach…
Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.
But Apple users are far more likely to spend money on apps, making Apple the most lucrative target for mobile developers to target first.
Not in the US, which is really the only place this app is applicable at the moment.
Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.
It’s my understanding this is true globally, but not for the US, where Apple has ~60% share.
(This app should absolutely be cross-platform though)
Fair point. I neglected to consider that we are talking about an app specifically for Americans.
In the US it’s a very small majority.
Not even close.
im not a developer or a genius but I’m pretty sure you can write an app once using a framework like react native or whatever and then compile it for both android and ios and optionally release them along with the source code used to compile them
deleted by creator
It’s going to be filled with false warnings from MAGA idiots and trolls…
Anyone have a link to the app/website? I’d like to follow some among honing my horn and warning folks.
Is this only on Apple? Kind of lame.
This is IOS only owing to Android play store collecting a device identifier; the creator wanted complete anonymity
Quote from some other place people were discussing it. Unfortunately no source on it.
There are other stores besides the playstore…
It’s not about the store, it’s about the notification.
As mentioned in the Time article:
the app is not available on Android because it “requires a device ID in order to send push notifications, which requires a user account and a password.”
You don’t need a user account or password to receive a push notification.
You just need to have the app installed. The app can be configured by the developer to receive push notifications.
And the developer needs a device ID for that. Which is their objection: https://www.iceblock.app/android
There are ways around that
Its totally possible to send notification without having user account, see firebase.
Good old firebase. Notifications are not entirely device local on android, or something like that.
Thanks, but I’m not the developer of the app so that’s not really relevant for me.
i don’t think this other commenter was calling you out. i think they were just bringing up a point of discussion that’s relevant to the point you brought up
It’s 1000% possible to use android apps without involving Google in any way.
Edited for further clarification. It’s not about Google, it’s about what Android needs to receive notifications: https://www.iceblock.app/android
It’s really hard for me to understand how iOS is better in this sense. The only way to get this app is via the app store and the ONLY way to use the app store is be registering yourself with apple. Seems to me that you are tracked either way.
IMHO the devs probably wrote this in Swift and just don’t have experience working with android. Whole thing/story is just off IMO.
I’m really just sceptical about the whole thing being closed source really.
There is side loading, they can just release it on GitHub.
That’s not how push notifications on android work.
That doesn’t have anything to do with how you install the app.
It has to do with receiving notifications from the app in a privacy-preserving way. Unless the app is running with a server connection 24/7 (RIP battery life) you need to rely on the OS to deliver notifications.
fdroid?
It is only for iOS. I haven’t found a similar app for Android.
It’s important to buy devices that respect your privacy.
I would imagine this is very similar to marking a cop on Waze and completely legal which is why they are throwing a hissy fit.
He who saves his Country does not violate any Law
- Donald Trump
- Napoleon
- Donald Trump
This app sounds exceedingly useful to me.
It sounds like a honeypot to me. But I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Edit: and it’s gone?
It’s not gone, it’s just currently not available in your country or region.
Looking at the reviews, ignoring the mega hats, it seems part of the app does not work from time to time
“He’s giving a message to criminals where our federal officers are, and he cannot do that, and we are looking at it, we are looking at him, and he better watch out,” Bondi said. “Because that is not protected speech, that is threatening the lives of our law enforcement officers throughout this country, and shame on CNN!”
Why can’t he do that, Pammy?
Gotta say Aaron is a bold motherfucker.
No, no, no. They painted the targets on themselves.
This app is telling people where to avoid. Not where to go.
All of a sudden, so many things are “not protected speech”. I find it tempting to be as ignorant as a Republican, but I’d certainly be caught off guard in that case.
Why can’t he? She literally says why not in the text you copied and pasted lol
Yes, but that statement also contains over 50% lies by volume
Does her word override the first amendment?
There aren’t many exceptions, and what’s happening on a public street generally isn’t one of them.
Does her word override the first amendment?
Doxxing federal agents and putting their lives in danger is a crime. The first amendment doesn’t give you the right to do that without repercussions.
“the First Amendment protects the right to gather information about what public officials do on public property.” Smith v. City of Cumming, 212 F. 3d 1332, 1333 (11th Cir. 2000).
Sure, you can gather that information. You can’t then put it out there publicly to help people break the law, and to put federal law enforcement employees lives in danger.
Can you prove that people are breaking the law by the mere collection and existence of this data?
How about those Flock ALPR cameras showing up everywhere? Can we be sure the collected data is being used in accordance with the law?
They’re not just collecting it though, that’s the point - they’re publishing it on an app that is specifically made to help people evade law enforcement and to target violence at law enforcement.
Are you a lawyer? What law are you citing?
Obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting, to name a few.
Yes, we should follow the laws like our government officials and police always do. Give me a fucking break lmao.
You can choose to break the law if you want, but you can’t then cry about it if/when you get caught. This guy can make his ICE-tracking app, but he has to live with the repercussions.
Showing the current location of [what is supposed to be] a public servant in a public location acting publicly is not doxxing.
The purpose of the app is to help illegal immigrants evade arrest, and to help “activists” assault and impede ICE. All illegal things.
The app merely informs of locations, you choosing to add all that bullshit to it is your own hangup. Citizens who don’t want to be abducted by power tripping unidentified masked men - who’ve already been south to be violent and aggressive to random people regardless of status are also avoiding those areas. That’s not illegal.
ICE are the ones breaking the law.
