The arrest comes days after police handcuffed U.S. Sen. Alex Padilla after he was forcibly removed from a press conference held by DHS Secretary Kristi Noem.
It’s “so American” to want to be armed in self defense against fascists
Peaceful protests are “performative”
Violent protests will be used as justification for further acts of despotism
The only solution is to trust the guard and/or the police to do the right thing
On its own I’d cede the first point, because Americans do have a profound gun problem. As to the third, it answers the second and the fourth - the police and their imitators are avowed fascists who will make the protests violent any way they can.
It is insufficient to hope that the guard will stand with the states, when the courts and the pentagon gang up on them they’ll certainly cave. Now that dear leader is in charge, you’ll hear nothing about “states rights” except when it involves taking away citizens’ rights.
Peaceful protests aren’t just performative. Not sure how I gave that impression. They are challenging authorities to demonstrate their commitment to the common good. Violence (even very mild violence) against peaceful people is unequivocally wrong unless they’re doing something that might directly harm others… like blocking an emergency vehicle route or something.
It also puts pressure on politicians to do the right thing.
Right now, against this government, we don’t know how effective protests will be in the end. We don’t know if military officers will remain loyal to the constitution and state leadership tover the orders of the dictator in chief.
There are too many unknowns and it’s far too early to be giving up on a non-violent solution.
Well, to come clean, you’re talking to an American who saw all this coming (in the broad strokes) five years ago and decamped to the UK for the long haul.
My view since then has been that after justice Ginsberg died in office, enough dominoes fell to make the fall of empire - one way or another, peacefully or otherwise - all but inevitable. Not that I put all of that on her, but it was a little selfish not to step down while a friendly administration could find a good replacement…
You’re right that this administration sees protests the way a dictator does - if small, a pleasant invitation to violent reprisals, and if very large, inherently threatening. You’re right in some things, but it’s impossible to be narrowly coherent in a topic of this size so with apologies, you’re getting a few paragraphs.
My broader view is that although the prior norms of the US government allowed for relative comfort domestically, they were built on the back of an economic and military empire abroad that was (still is) deeply disgraceful, and a return to form (even by peaceful protest) isn’t very desirable given what it would require to accomplish.
In order to merely return to a horrible but comforting status quo, Americans would have to somehow defeat a would-be king, peacefully, while he controls a global empire whose violence would command the respect of any Mongol khan, who also has the blessing of a class of moneyed elites whose economic inequality puts the ancien régime into the shade. And you’re thinking Americans will accomplish this? You flatterer.
If I had my druthers, we’d have a peaceful* revolution that dismantled the old system entirely, and quickly (quickly as hell given the geopolitical spinning plates we’re holding) reform into something more akin to an EU with way less centralised power, hopefully a smaller military budget overall, and a shitload fewer billionaires.
*Without much if any factionalized armed conflict, per se. A nonviolent revolution does require that violence be available upon request.
The reason I left is that I don’t see this level of general solidarity or awareness among my people. I think a different flavour of empire collapse is far likelier, and I’ve got people to protect now, or I’d probably still be there taking a flying fuck at the Nazis. I left my guns with sensible folk and left, instead.
So there’s my whole deal. We’re not likely to get it, but at least it’s something worth wanting in the first place. I have to hope that merely imagining a future worth having is in some way contributing to the common endeavour. And I hope that by being more expansive we can understand one another better, or leastways bicker more productively.
Well said yeah. There are definitely some nuances in the way to defend yourself in a country where everyone is armed to the teeth, and a whole lot of cynicism given the circumstances. My words are aspirational at best, I get that. In reality, I’m saying what I’m saying because I share your concerns for your people.
We’re currently enjoying a right wing government with a few Trump inspired figures, skyrocketing cost of living, rising crime, and very disconcerting xenophobic and quasi racist musings coming out of certain public figures. But blissfully and blessedly we’re a long way away from the chaos your brothers and sisters are going through now and the hell that may be soon to come.
The fear is the global world order falling apart may not be long in following.
In this thread, we’ve heard from you that,
On its own I’d cede the first point, because Americans do have a profound gun problem. As to the third, it answers the second and the fourth - the police and their imitators are avowed fascists who will make the protests violent any way they can.
It is insufficient to hope that the guard will stand with the states, when the courts and the pentagon gang up on them they’ll certainly cave. Now that dear leader is in charge, you’ll hear nothing about “states rights” except when it involves taking away citizens’ rights.
Peaceful protests aren’t just performative. Not sure how I gave that impression. They are challenging authorities to demonstrate their commitment to the common good. Violence (even very mild violence) against peaceful people is unequivocally wrong unless they’re doing something that might directly harm others… like blocking an emergency vehicle route or something.
It also puts pressure on politicians to do the right thing.
Right now, against this government, we don’t know how effective protests will be in the end. We don’t know if military officers will remain loyal to the constitution and state leadership tover the orders of the dictator in chief.
There are too many unknowns and it’s far too early to be giving up on a non-violent solution.
Well, to come clean, you’re talking to an American who saw all this coming (in the broad strokes) five years ago and decamped to the UK for the long haul.
My view since then has been that after justice Ginsberg died in office, enough dominoes fell to make the fall of empire - one way or another, peacefully or otherwise - all but inevitable. Not that I put all of that on her, but it was a little selfish not to step down while a friendly administration could find a good replacement…
You’re right that this administration sees protests the way a dictator does - if small, a pleasant invitation to violent reprisals, and if very large, inherently threatening. You’re right in some things, but it’s impossible to be narrowly coherent in a topic of this size so with apologies, you’re getting a few paragraphs.
My broader view is that although the prior norms of the US government allowed for relative comfort domestically, they were built on the back of an economic and military empire abroad that was (still is) deeply disgraceful, and a return to form (even by peaceful protest) isn’t very desirable given what it would require to accomplish.
In order to merely return to a horrible but comforting status quo, Americans would have to somehow defeat a would-be king, peacefully, while he controls a global empire whose violence would command the respect of any Mongol khan, who also has the blessing of a class of moneyed elites whose economic inequality puts the ancien régime into the shade. And you’re thinking Americans will accomplish this? You flatterer.
If I had my druthers, we’d have a peaceful* revolution that dismantled the old system entirely, and quickly (quickly as hell given the geopolitical spinning plates we’re holding) reform into something more akin to an EU with way less centralised power, hopefully a smaller military budget overall, and a shitload fewer billionaires.
*Without much if any factionalized armed conflict, per se. A nonviolent revolution does require that violence be available upon request.
The reason I left is that I don’t see this level of general solidarity or awareness among my people. I think a different flavour of empire collapse is far likelier, and I’ve got people to protect now, or I’d probably still be there taking a flying fuck at the Nazis. I left my guns with sensible folk and left, instead.
So there’s my whole deal. We’re not likely to get it, but at least it’s something worth wanting in the first place. I have to hope that merely imagining a future worth having is in some way contributing to the common endeavour. And I hope that by being more expansive we can understand one another better, or leastways bicker more productively.
Well said yeah. There are definitely some nuances in the way to defend yourself in a country where everyone is armed to the teeth, and a whole lot of cynicism given the circumstances. My words are aspirational at best, I get that. In reality, I’m saying what I’m saying because I share your concerns for your people.
Laudable. Would be interested to know what country you’re in/from - if only for the context of what cultural lens you’re seeing this in.
New Zealand.
We’re currently enjoying a right wing government with a few Trump inspired figures, skyrocketing cost of living, rising crime, and very disconcerting xenophobic and quasi racist musings coming out of certain public figures. But blissfully and blessedly we’re a long way away from the chaos your brothers and sisters are going through now and the hell that may be soon to come.
The fear is the global world order falling apart may not be long in following.
Yeah. My whole life it’s felt like I showed up at the end of the party. The older I get, the more I realise what a mess was made.