Congressional Democrats on Thursday introduced legislation that would immediately cut interest rates to 0 percent for all 44 million student loan borrowers in the U.S. While the Student Loan …
The core problem is one you’ve narrowed in on: There’s a positive feedback loop between schools and lenders to increase costs forever.
Student loan debt is (almost) impossible to discharge in bankruptcy. That shit will follow the student for the rest of their life, until it’s paid off or the student dies. This is accomplished by allowing private lenders to make “federally-backed” loans, in which there is a quasi-private lender who is, by statute, able to collect interest on the loan, but has almost no risk because, should the student fail to pay, the federal government steps in, pays off the lender, and assumes the debt, at which point, the student still has to pay, but the lender got their money back, plus whatever interest the student had paid until that point.
I mean, if you were in the student loan business, why wouldn’t you lend as much as possible? It’s literally free, guaranteed revenue for decades. You’d be stupid not to enter this almost zero-risk business.
Meanwhile, while lenders want to lend as much as possible, they can’t hand out insane loans for education if education costs little. Schools notice that students have no problem paying large sums of money, so… they increase tuition, books, add fees, and suddenly, schools are bumping up against what students’ would be able to borrow, so those lenders are more than happy to accept more risk-free revenue in the future in exchange for a pittance now, and suddenly, we have a feedback loop that spirals ever-upwards.
The absolutely quickest way to solve the problem is unwind the various bankrupcy laws that makde student loans essentially bankruptcy-proof. Lenders should have to do things like credit-worthiness checks on students.
The best way is to simply provide a free college education for every student that wants one, just like we do a high school education. The entire idea that you should have to assume a crapton of debt just to learn something is insane. The “student loan industry” shouldn’t exist.
Yeah, you have this right. If we do undo the bankruptcy laws, though, we do still need to do something to support students who don’t qualify for credit. Otherwise we will be making a university education even more difficult for less privileged people to attain.
We would probably need to expand grant programs to compensate for the extra barrier.
Yeah, I’m one of those. If credit checks like that were instituted there is absolutely zero chance I could have enrolled. My bank wouldn’t give me 500 dollars to get my transmission fixed, much less the tens of thousands I need for a bachelor’s. The solution is the nationalization of education. Fuck this nonsense. Public education from K-post doc. Let the rich have their Harvards and whatever, but we need good state schools and a new crop of federal colleges popping up all over rhe country, in addition to community colleges. For free. No questions asked. Do you make absolutely no money whatsoever? Study here. Are you literally Jeff Bezos? Who cares. Study here.
We also need to get back to the way things were a century ago or more, where students could just decide they wanted to know a thing, and then go learn that thing. No need to declare a major, or even enroll for a degree. Just go learn the things you want to learn. Education should be it’s own reward, even if we also need it for other things. I’m not saying do away with degrees, just make it possible for people to audit classes, or use the resources of their local, public, universities.
You’re absolutely right; only unwinding the bankruptcy stuff is problematic. It’s a temporary measure to stop the spiraling upward costs and make lenders stop lending so much. And yeah, that has an almost immediate impact on people who need lending to go to school. Fixing bankruptcy needs to be married to some solution that makes schooling free for anyone that wants it. There’s plenty of examples out there to model a solution after, it’s not a novel idea.
In a world where a student can attend a public university for free, or hopefully pass a credit check to get into to Harvard, I’m okay with that. In fact, in such a world, I would love to see that college degrees come with an accreditation from both the institution (“Harvard”) and the lender, demonstrating loan repayment is complete and/or in good standing, to specifically address the case people were so fearful of in the 70s – someone takes out a loan, graduates, and immediately declares bankruptcy, “cheating” their way to a college degree for free.
In this fantasy world I’ve constructed, by the way, I also want a flying horse, and my dick is like 12 inches long, and I’m shredded but never have to go to the gym and can eat corn dogs all day long.
The US can look at how other countries, that don’t outright provide free education, do it instead of reinventing the wheel.
Getting rid of the discharge protection is only a small part of it.
It’s more important to set a legal maximum for college tuition for accredited institutions.
Then make any subsidies and funds contingent being accredited.
Lastly make federal loans contingent on enrollment to accredited institutions, with the additional benefit of being able to cap the loan amount at a level correlated to the legal maximum tuition (not to be confused with setting at the tuition level because living expenses need to be taken into account as well).
Make the interest rate sub 1%, because the government shouldn’t profit off of you as it is a service and do away with private middle men that administer the loans, instead establishing a special loan administration agency.
This will have as effect that institutions either get in line or lose all government funds and a significant portion of enrollments.
If you then also manage to uphold a uniform quality level that you regularly inspect at the accredited institutions, you’ll end up with a clear, affordable choice of quality education v. unknown quality education that may or may not be a huge waste of non-publicly provided money.
ETA:
You can even take it a step further and follow more examples from abroad in terms of acceptance.
Where you aim to get to a situation that everyone that applies with the pre-requisite prior education credentials, gets accepted.
The way this is often done abroad is with a centralized application process managed by the government, in which you indicate your top 3 preferred colleges, the portal verifies your prior education (as it’s centrally registered) and then enrolls you in order of preference.
For some studies, like law school, med school and psychology they’ll have more applicants than available spots, and in those cases it’s decided by lottery with slightly weighted chances based on your grade average.
The end result is that the vast majority of people automatically get accepted and the ones that don’t get in via the lottery are almost guaranteed to be placed the following year.
This solves the whole minority/legacy/etc. acceptance debacle, makes applying for schools less like applying for a job with writing essays and stuffing your resume with a bunch of extracurriculars and in the process makes the accredited institutions even more attractive compared to the potential hold outs that keep doing things the old fashioned way.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. The government has set up a perfect storm of crippling student loans. I’m with you up until the free education part, but I see where you’re coming from.
The reason we got into this mess is because previously, you needed some form of wealth to attend college. The government didn’t like the class divide, and backed federal loans so that anyone could get a loan. Then to address the concern of a student, with no assets, just immediately declaring bankruptcy after his degree, they made it impossible.
Free education would address this, but I’m not so sure that would do more than just adjust the problem. We have free education up through high school, and generally poor neighborhoods have shit education and can’t afford private or to move. I don’t see how that problem doesn’t just expand to colleges.
We already have an issue getting good quality teachers and paying them, that problem will only explode when we take on professor salaries.
I’m a conservative libertarian, so I’d rather see the government get their hands out of it all, or let the local governments deal with it. I know that’s not ideal, but I’d rather see the problems reset and then look for solutions. We have such a large stack of band aids right now, its tough to say what will happen when we start removing them, or adding different ones.
Why not go a step further and make huge education mandatory? We used to consider high school optional, but eventually we realized the immense value that comes with an educated society.
I agree in principle, but not in reality. We will never get student loan relief if we shoot for “perfect”.
Yes, schools will raise prices in response, if they don’t have to share any responsibility for the loans. Every time we get some way to enable students to pay for college, schools raise the price more. It’s a fact, and I agree that they will be dicks again if they can.
But, that does not exclude half measures to give relief now. We can have an imperfect non-solution now, and go for the long term solution later if it helps people get by.
Lenders should have to do things like credit-worthiness checks on students.
Impossible. 18 year olds don’t have extensive credit histories, if they have any. It’s simply an impossible thing to evaluate.
The core problem is one you’ve narrowed in on: There’s a positive feedback loop between schools and lenders to increase costs forever.
Student loan debt is (almost) impossible to discharge in bankruptcy. That shit will follow the student for the rest of their life, until it’s paid off or the student dies. This is accomplished by allowing private lenders to make “federally-backed” loans, in which there is a quasi-private lender who is, by statute, able to collect interest on the loan, but has almost no risk because, should the student fail to pay, the federal government steps in, pays off the lender, and assumes the debt, at which point, the student still has to pay, but the lender got their money back, plus whatever interest the student had paid until that point.
I mean, if you were in the student loan business, why wouldn’t you lend as much as possible? It’s literally free, guaranteed revenue for decades. You’d be stupid not to enter this almost zero-risk business.
Meanwhile, while lenders want to lend as much as possible, they can’t hand out insane loans for education if education costs little. Schools notice that students have no problem paying large sums of money, so… they increase tuition, books, add fees, and suddenly, schools are bumping up against what students’ would be able to borrow, so those lenders are more than happy to accept more risk-free revenue in the future in exchange for a pittance now, and suddenly, we have a feedback loop that spirals ever-upwards.
The absolutely quickest way to solve the problem is unwind the various bankrupcy laws that makde student loans essentially bankruptcy-proof. Lenders should have to do things like credit-worthiness checks on students.
The best way is to simply provide a free college education for every student that wants one, just like we do a high school education. The entire idea that you should have to assume a crapton of debt just to learn something is insane. The “student loan industry” shouldn’t exist.
Yeah, you have this right. If we do undo the bankruptcy laws, though, we do still need to do something to support students who don’t qualify for credit. Otherwise we will be making a university education even more difficult for less privileged people to attain.
We would probably need to expand grant programs to compensate for the extra barrier.
Yeah, I’m one of those. If credit checks like that were instituted there is absolutely zero chance I could have enrolled. My bank wouldn’t give me 500 dollars to get my transmission fixed, much less the tens of thousands I need for a bachelor’s. The solution is the nationalization of education. Fuck this nonsense. Public education from K-post doc. Let the rich have their Harvards and whatever, but we need good state schools and a new crop of federal colleges popping up all over rhe country, in addition to community colleges. For free. No questions asked. Do you make absolutely no money whatsoever? Study here. Are you literally Jeff Bezos? Who cares. Study here.
We also need to get back to the way things were a century ago or more, where students could just decide they wanted to know a thing, and then go learn that thing. No need to declare a major, or even enroll for a degree. Just go learn the things you want to learn. Education should be it’s own reward, even if we also need it for other things. I’m not saying do away with degrees, just make it possible for people to audit classes, or use the resources of their local, public, universities.
You’re absolutely right; only unwinding the bankruptcy stuff is problematic. It’s a temporary measure to stop the spiraling upward costs and make lenders stop lending so much. And yeah, that has an almost immediate impact on people who need lending to go to school. Fixing bankruptcy needs to be married to some solution that makes schooling free for anyone that wants it. There’s plenty of examples out there to model a solution after, it’s not a novel idea.
In a world where a student can attend a public university for free, or hopefully pass a credit check to get into to Harvard, I’m okay with that. In fact, in such a world, I would love to see that college degrees come with an accreditation from both the institution (“Harvard”) and the lender, demonstrating loan repayment is complete and/or in good standing, to specifically address the case people were so fearful of in the 70s – someone takes out a loan, graduates, and immediately declares bankruptcy, “cheating” their way to a college degree for free.
In this fantasy world I’ve constructed, by the way, I also want a flying horse, and my dick is like 12 inches long, and I’m shredded but never have to go to the gym and can eat corn dogs all day long.
The US can look at how other countries, that don’t outright provide free education, do it instead of reinventing the wheel.
Getting rid of the discharge protection is only a small part of it.
It’s more important to set a legal maximum for college tuition for accredited institutions.
Then make any subsidies and funds contingent being accredited.
Lastly make federal loans contingent on enrollment to accredited institutions, with the additional benefit of being able to cap the loan amount at a level correlated to the legal maximum tuition (not to be confused with setting at the tuition level because living expenses need to be taken into account as well).
Make the interest rate sub 1%, because the government shouldn’t profit off of you as it is a service and do away with private middle men that administer the loans, instead establishing a special loan administration agency.
This will have as effect that institutions either get in line or lose all government funds and a significant portion of enrollments.
If you then also manage to uphold a uniform quality level that you regularly inspect at the accredited institutions, you’ll end up with a clear, affordable choice of quality education v. unknown quality education that may or may not be a huge waste of non-publicly provided money.
ETA:
You can even take it a step further and follow more examples from abroad in terms of acceptance.
Where you aim to get to a situation that everyone that applies with the pre-requisite prior education credentials, gets accepted.
The way this is often done abroad is with a centralized application process managed by the government, in which you indicate your top 3 preferred colleges, the portal verifies your prior education (as it’s centrally registered) and then enrolls you in order of preference.
For some studies, like law school, med school and psychology they’ll have more applicants than available spots, and in those cases it’s decided by lottery with slightly weighted chances based on your grade average.
The end result is that the vast majority of people automatically get accepted and the ones that don’t get in via the lottery are almost guaranteed to be placed the following year.
This solves the whole minority/legacy/etc. acceptance debacle, makes applying for schools less like applying for a job with writing essays and stuffing your resume with a bunch of extracurriculars and in the process makes the accredited institutions even more attractive compared to the potential hold outs that keep doing things the old fashioned way.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. The government has set up a perfect storm of crippling student loans. I’m with you up until the free education part, but I see where you’re coming from.
The reason we got into this mess is because previously, you needed some form of wealth to attend college. The government didn’t like the class divide, and backed federal loans so that anyone could get a loan. Then to address the concern of a student, with no assets, just immediately declaring bankruptcy after his degree, they made it impossible.
Free education would address this, but I’m not so sure that would do more than just adjust the problem. We have free education up through high school, and generally poor neighborhoods have shit education and can’t afford private or to move. I don’t see how that problem doesn’t just expand to colleges.
We already have an issue getting good quality teachers and paying them, that problem will only explode when we take on professor salaries.
I’m a conservative libertarian, so I’d rather see the government get their hands out of it all, or let the local governments deal with it. I know that’s not ideal, but I’d rather see the problems reset and then look for solutions. We have such a large stack of band aids right now, its tough to say what will happen when we start removing them, or adding different ones.
Why not go a step further and make huge education mandatory? We used to consider high school optional, but eventually we realized the immense value that comes with an educated society.
I agree in principle, but not in reality. We will never get student loan relief if we shoot for “perfect”.
Yes, schools will raise prices in response, if they don’t have to share any responsibility for the loans. Every time we get some way to enable students to pay for college, schools raise the price more. It’s a fact, and I agree that they will be dicks again if they can.
But, that does not exclude half measures to give relief now. We can have an imperfect non-solution now, and go for the long term solution later if it helps people get by.
Impossible. 18 year olds don’t have extensive credit histories, if they have any. It’s simply an impossible thing to evaluate.