Elon Musk takes hit as Europeans ditch X in droves – POLITICO
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  • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    31·
    9 hours ago

    The results of an action being done for a reason being discriminatory does not make the reason invalid.

    Almost any policy is discriminatory.

    Taxing the rich more is discriminatory against the rich. Helping women out is discriminatory against the men. Ending segregation is discriminatory against people that don’t want be near people different to them. The list is endless.

    I assume you agree with all 3 of those policies. Yet they are discriminatory. Those 3 policies are done because of very valid reasons.

    There are very few policies that I’d say are not desceiminatory. Like universal basic income or universal healthcare. And even then, by your definition of discriminatory, those would be discriminatory. Since they would still discriminate against non-citizens.

    There is no world where a person born in X country that has never left X country to receive income from a UBI policy of Y country. Unless X and Y countries have some sort of deal where that happens.

    • MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      41·
      8 hours ago

      I don’t think that’s why we’re having this conversation. Seems like you’re talking about technicalities and I’m talking about values. I don’t think we can have a conversation like this.

      • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        31·
        8 hours ago

        This specific technicality is important for your point though.

        I’m gonna explain my reasoning so you can choose whatever you want have a conversation about.

        Your claim was that putting citizens above non-citizens is xenophobic.

        My point is that putting citizens above non-citizens is a natural consequence of a state. And furthermore, that it is a good thing.

        Xenophobia is widely regarded to be a bad thing and that we should avoid it.

        If both of our statements are true. The natural conclusion is that we should have a stateless society. I don’t think that a stateless society is a good thing. Therefore I’m trying to find a flaw in the argument. I think that the flaw is that you are wrong. So I have to have a conversation with you about why I think you are wrong.

        If you are wrong, it must mean one of these statements are wrong:

        • Putting citizens above non-citizens is xenophobic.
        • Putting citizens above non-citizens is a natural consequence of the state.
        • Xenophobia is widely regarded to be a bad thing and we should avoid it.

        Since 2/3 statements are made by me, of course I think they are true. So I’m going to argue about why the first one is wrong.

        The only way to proof your statement to be wrong is by first defining what xenophobia is. Which you might call a technicality, but I don’t think it’s possible to have a conversation if we don’t first agree what the meaning of the words we use is.

        After defining what xenophobia is, we have to figure out if the “equation” is true: “putting citizens above non-citizens” = “xenophobia”.

          • calcopiritus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            31·
            7 hours ago

            Well. In that case we have to either move on to argue why I believe that a stateless society is bad and you believe it is good. Or just call it here and agree to disagree. Whatever you prefer. Since I don’t think I can change your mind (on the basis of past experience about this topic, not something personal about you) or that you can change mine about that topic.

            EDIT:

            Or you could provide a different definition for “xenophobia”. But I don’t think I’ll agree to any other definition.