Ok then America should be a smaller collection of native states that the white settlers genocided.
I agree in principle. But you can’t reverse history to what it SHOULD have been.
Self determination is I assume your point. Which I’m all for. But that is only as good as how well those states can continue to defend their sovereignty. You break up Russia and then it’s just a bunch of small defenseless states that the rest of the world with pick apart for resources as they’ve done with Ukraine.
Even if they did separate, there would still be a Russia, and it would not lose as much as one might think.
And even so, it is a bad idea. There are so many disputes between the nations, that we would likely see a few wars. Something like what is happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Also, many of them are too small to exist in a meaningful was as independent countries, and I honestly don’t see the harm in them remaining in Russia.
There are so many disputes between the nations, that we would likely see a few wars.
Since the break up of the USSR, Russia has fought two wars in Chechnya and invaded both Georgia and Ukraine. I’m failing to see how the prospect of perennial future wars is something to worry about when they’re already engaging in what you’re worried about.
Also, Russia is partially to blame for the Armenian-Azeri war as they have failed to uphold their CTSO obligations to Armenia.
Yeah, but it is going to be even worse. Russian Caucasus is going to have a few wars at least, hell, it did happen to an extent when the federal government was weak. There are territorial disputes and conflicts that are only suspended for as long as these republics are a part of Russia.
So my point stands: there are reasons to be opposed to the “balkanisation of Russia” and no reasons to support it, unless you want that because you just want to hurt Russia, but in this case be honest with yourself and do not pretend you are doing it for the ethnic minorities.
Correcting historic injustice is usually pretty messy. I’m not looking for Russia to be hurt, I’m looking for it to be broken up so it can no longer wage the wars of conquest it has consistently engaged in as well as giving the ethnic minorities that imperial Russia and the USSR oppressed the self determination they deserve. There would have been no wars in the caucuses in the 90’s if not for Russian imperialism.
You mentioned the invasion of Georgia, and it seems from the context like you believe it to be an injust invasion. Is this correct? Do you believe Georgia is entitled to the land it lost?
Which time? When the Bolsheviks ousted a democratic government in 1921? When the Red Army crushed protests in 1989?
I get your implied point that Ossetians and Abkhazians did not feel included in the Georgian nationalist government that took over after independence, but I also think that Russia crafted the conditions that created this problem in the first place and intervention from them was not the solution.
But is this not irrelevant? It seems to me that you believe that North Ossetia should be independent, despite the fact that Ossetians do not want independence from Russia, and South Ossetia should not be independent, despite the fact that South Ossetians would rather not be a part of Georgia.
I believe in self determination, so I don’t have a problem with any group deciding they want to be Russian in a free and fair election. That said, I find that Russia’s involvement in the Caucuses has been wholly self serving.
A collection of the smaller ethnic states which The Russian Empire conquered and genocided.
Ok then America should be a smaller collection of native states that the white settlers genocided.
I agree in principle. But you can’t reverse history to what it SHOULD have been.
Self determination is I assume your point. Which I’m all for. But that is only as good as how well those states can continue to defend their sovereignty. You break up Russia and then it’s just a bunch of small defenseless states that the rest of the world with pick apart for resources as they’ve done with Ukraine.
Even if they did separate, there would still be a Russia, and it would not lose as much as one might think.
And even so, it is a bad idea. There are so many disputes between the nations, that we would likely see a few wars. Something like what is happening between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Also, many of them are too small to exist in a meaningful was as independent countries, and I honestly don’t see the harm in them remaining in Russia.
Since the break up of the USSR, Russia has fought two wars in Chechnya and invaded both Georgia and Ukraine. I’m failing to see how the prospect of perennial future wars is something to worry about when they’re already engaging in what you’re worried about.
Also, Russia is partially to blame for the Armenian-Azeri war as they have failed to uphold their CTSO obligations to Armenia.
Yeah, but it is going to be even worse. Russian Caucasus is going to have a few wars at least, hell, it did happen to an extent when the federal government was weak. There are territorial disputes and conflicts that are only suspended for as long as these republics are a part of Russia.
So my point stands: there are reasons to be opposed to the “balkanisation of Russia” and no reasons to support it, unless you want that because you just want to hurt Russia, but in this case be honest with yourself and do not pretend you are doing it for the ethnic minorities.
Correcting historic injustice is usually pretty messy. I’m not looking for Russia to be hurt, I’m looking for it to be broken up so it can no longer wage the wars of conquest it has consistently engaged in as well as giving the ethnic minorities that imperial Russia and the USSR oppressed the self determination they deserve. There would have been no wars in the caucuses in the 90’s if not for Russian imperialism.
You mentioned the invasion of Georgia, and it seems from the context like you believe it to be an injust invasion. Is this correct? Do you believe Georgia is entitled to the land it lost?
Which time? When the Bolsheviks ousted a democratic government in 1921? When the Red Army crushed protests in 1989?
I get your implied point that Ossetians and Abkhazians did not feel included in the Georgian nationalist government that took over after independence, but I also think that Russia crafted the conditions that created this problem in the first place and intervention from them was not the solution.
But is this not irrelevant? It seems to me that you believe that North Ossetia should be independent, despite the fact that Ossetians do not want independence from Russia, and South Ossetia should not be independent, despite the fact that South Ossetians would rather not be a part of Georgia.
I believe in self determination, so I don’t have a problem with any group deciding they want to be Russian in a free and fair election. That said, I find that Russia’s involvement in the Caucuses has been wholly self serving.