I keep seeing posts mentioning this phenomenon more and more often.
For instance:
‘Andrew Tate phenomena’ surges in schools - with boys refusing to talk to female teacher
Like, why? Why now? Why even? I really wish I had a time machine where I could go to the future and ask them what the general reasons were for this social development. But I feel like I’m looking for the specific thorn on a cactus that popped my balloon.
I honestly believe that teaching young people about the academic ideas of toxic masculinity has contributed to this problem. We are telling young boys and men (who don’t even know what masculinity even is yet) that men are toxic.
It’s dumb. It’s not like we are teaching what non toxic femininity or non toxic masculinity is or even what it looks like, we’re just telling them that men are toxic rapists. It’s ridiculous.
I get it, like maybe in the context of a sex education class, teach kids what consent looks like, but teaching kids about academic ideas like the patriarchy and toxic masculinity just makes them feel like they were born with sin or something for being a sexual human being.
We are not, though? The idea of toxic masculinity does not tell anyone that men are toxic, or even that masculinity in general is toxic, it’s about specific behaviors.
I think this is cope tbh, people say the same thing about how teaching real history is just teaching “white guilt,” but this is just low effort denialism to try and say the problem wouldn’t exist if you just stop talking about it. I was a white person in school, and I never felt guilty for being a white person when I learned what America did, I felt like America did bad things.
Similarly, teaching boys that “hey, you know that behavior you might see in old movies that looks kinda cool? it turns you into an asshole if you act like that in real life” is not teaching them male guilt or self hatred.
You say this is “cope”? I don’t know what that means
I’m giving you an upvote because I actually like this topic and you seem genuine, and also because I’m still always trying to learn more….
I actually had the same thought when I was typing my response about how teaching white kids about how our country (USA) was founded on slavery, the idea of “white guilt” edit (I couldn’t remember what it was called though)
But I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.
Black people are not 50% of the population, and are not…. In the same sense, forced to live here and also forced to deal with systemic oppression…. In the same way. (Edit: I’m saying black folks have gone through ten times worse than what “women” {or “men”} have gone through)
(Edit: CAN YOU SEE HOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES MEN AND BOYS ARE DEALING WITH, and trying to work through and discuss, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME THE ASSUMPTION IS THEY THEY ARE NOT THE VICTIMS BUT THE AGGRESSORS? This is why, to answer the question of the original post)
Like I said, I had the same thought about it.
I still think class is more fundamental. I think race sex class issues are not equal. I think that maybe, race and sex issues stem from the class issues. Still trying to figure it out though, I’m not the end all be all of arbiter of how things are…. Okay, I might be but I don’t make any assumptions about it or rub it in anyones’ faces or anything like that…. 👀
I have to feed my dogs though before I can respond to the rest one sec
Edit: so the first point about we are not teaching kids (young men and boys) they are toxic?
I would argue that teaching them about toxic masculinity without having any reference or ever having used the word positive masculinity before, that yes, we are indeed teaching our young men and boys that they are toxic.
And for your last point… oh come on now there’s appropriate times for acting like Dirty Harry, especially if you can make jokes in stressful situations……
Edit: the more I think about the comparison to white guilt argument is it reminds me of everything I understand about intersectionality…. I think my main complaint is that teaching young people graduate level race and gender theories without all the prerequisite understandings needed to take those courses, we are leaving our kids to tell each other to check their privilege and writing off anyone who disagrees with us, which in elementary school means writing off the guy who made fun of your mother for being so fat or skinny or so dumb she sits on the television to watch the couch.
Toxic masculinity and privilege are systemic issues, not issues related to whether bully Johnie gave me a wedgie or not. (Although it could be I suppose 🤷♂️)
Done except for grammar etc sorry for so many edits
I think you just have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is being taught to children. We can teach the broad strokes morals and ethics without the collegiate theory. Kids can learn about Martin Luther King Jr and why racism is bad, we’ve been doing it for decades. Adding toxic masculinity would be more of the same “don’t be an asshole” but with gender instead of race.
Stop telling young men and boys they are toxic in front of their peers.
Also, please define toxic femininity