There are two ways to become a citizen in the United States:
By birth
By naturalization
Both are attested by government certificates. Do you really think the government does not have access to those records? If someone is not found in either of those, what are the chances that they have a valid claim to citizenship?
The government checking a database for records and ensuring those are correct and in line with the information the accused has (via a judicial body), IS DUE PROCESS.
What are the chances? This isn’t the fucking casino, it’s people’s legal rights, which are also YOUR legal rights, and they are proved by evidence, not odds.
Not giving someone due process, means they don’t have to look at those government documents (and they haven’t been in several cases and admitted it). That means YOU, they can refuse to look at your ID or say it is fake, refuse to let you prove it in court- THAT’S DUE PROCESS
NONE of this, and I can’t emphasize this enough, is about these people’s actual legal citizenship status or not, so your first two points are mind-numbingly bad. Whether you get your day in court is how we determine ANYTHING in this country so we MUST grant it, or else they own your body and self and can just kidnap you anywhere, literally.
The government checking a database for records and ensuring those are correct and in line with the information the accused has (via a judicial body), IS DUE PROCESS.
Okay, so when ICE goes to arrest people for whom they have no immigration records, they’ve already done their due process then, haven’t they. Glad we agree here.
I’ve already thoroughly explained. It’s not due process to “check in the database ahead of time” for citizenship status. That’s not what due process is or how it works. They can just CLAIM they did that for everyone, including you, and then you have NO RECOURSE to fix it or change it (THAT’S due process…!)
A child born in the United States, … becomes at the time of his birth a citizen
of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment of the Constitution, “All persons born or naturalized in the
United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of
the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
That 14th amendment is unqualified. The paper is a bureaucratic expediency.
I invite you to try to find case law that reaches the opposite conclusion.
We doin law by statistical probability? What are the odds their kid flushed their papers down the toilet that morning. They just SOL?
There’s a process for determining citizenship and “that tattooed guy with brown skin looks illegal. Send him to the torture slave camp” aint it champ. He even had his papers. Try again.
You dodged the actual point tho. people are owed due process and the presumption of innocence and snap jusgements are instead being made on the color of people’s skin. And again, that football player they sent to el salvador had a fucking greencard, he was a legal resident.
this isnt nazi germany pal, you dont just go up to people and demand their papers and then send them to a fucking camp whether they have them or not.
Tell me, how do they determine if you actually are a citizen or not without due process?
There are two ways to become a citizen in the United States:
Both are attested by government certificates. Do you really think the government does not have access to those records? If someone is not found in either of those, what are the chances that they have a valid claim to citizenship?
Do you not know what “due process” is, then?
The government checking a database for records and ensuring those are correct and in line with the information the accused has (via a judicial body), IS DUE PROCESS.
What are the chances? This isn’t the fucking casino, it’s people’s legal rights, which are also YOUR legal rights, and they are proved by evidence, not odds.
Not giving someone due process, means they don’t have to look at those government documents (and they haven’t been in several cases and admitted it). That means YOU, they can refuse to look at your ID or say it is fake, refuse to let you prove it in court- THAT’S DUE PROCESS
NONE of this, and I can’t emphasize this enough, is about these people’s actual legal citizenship status or not, so your first two points are mind-numbingly bad. Whether you get your day in court is how we determine ANYTHING in this country so we MUST grant it, or else they own your body and self and can just kidnap you anywhere, literally.
You’re a fucking idiot.
Okay, so when ICE goes to arrest people for whom they have no immigration records, they’ve already done their due process then, haven’t they. Glad we agree here.
No, that’s NOT due process.
Just admit you don’t know the phrase.
You just said that it was. I literally quoted you.
No, you didn’t.
That’s not what due process is. Please, get lead chelation therapy asap
Show me where I misquoted you.
I’ve already thoroughly explained. It’s not due process to “check in the database ahead of time” for citizenship status. That’s not what due process is or how it works. They can just CLAIM they did that for everyone, including you, and then you have NO RECOURSE to fix it or change it (THAT’S due process…!)
And while I’m at it, suppose someone is born in the US but not in a hospital. They’d have the claim but not the papers to show. Fuck 'em?
Believe it or not, there is a process for that.
https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/articles/how-to-get-birth-certificate-for-babies-born-outside-hospital
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceofftopic/comments/195i7tv/how_do_children_not_born_in_hospitals_get_birth/
cool great, but those are voluntary processes and the birthright is a right by birth (5head), not by paperwork.
Birthright is not an excuse for not filing the required paperwork.
It’s not required. You have birthright from being born.
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep169/usrep169649/usrep169649.pdf
That 14th amendment is unqualified. The paper is a bureaucratic expediency.
I invite you to try to find case law that reaches the opposite conclusion.
We doin law by statistical probability? What are the odds their kid flushed their papers down the toilet that morning. They just SOL?
There’s a process for determining citizenship and “that tattooed guy with brown skin looks illegal. Send him to the torture slave camp” aint it champ. He even had his papers. Try again.
If the kid flushed down the papers they’ll still be the government database, won’t they.
You dodged the actual point tho. people are owed due process and the presumption of innocence and snap jusgements are instead being made on the color of people’s skin. And again, that football player they sent to el salvador had a fucking greencard, he was a legal resident.
this isnt nazi germany pal, you dont just go up to people and demand their papers and then send them to a fucking camp whether they have them or not.