Credit to https://www.reddit.com/user/lukakopajtic/
There might be some changes that could improve it further:
Remove BraveMaybe add Signal; It’s easier than Element, but it’s also centralized- Stop suggesting Linux Mint specifically
- Recommend Hosted Nextcloud
Add GrapheneOS- Maybe add Delta chat
Maybe remove BlueskyRemove Stremio and add Jellfyin (even though it’s selfhosted and not a direct equivalent)Add ente because Immich is selfhostedAdd auroraAdd SearxNG- Add SimpleX
- Add lichess
- Add pCloud
Any other suggestions?
Temporary improved version:
| From | To | Compromise |
|---|---|---|
| X, Threads | Mastodon | Bluesky |
| Pixelfed | ||
| YouTube | PeerTube | ReVanced (just blocks adds) |
| Lemmy | ||
| Netlix, Disney+ | 🔨 Jellyfin | |
| Google Meet, Zoom | Jitsi Meet | |
| Google Docs | Etherpad | |
| Google Search | 🔨 SearxNG | Kagi, Ecosia |
| Google Drive | Nextcloud | pCloud, filen, Proton Drive |
| Google Photos, iCloud | Immich | Ente |
| Google Chrome | Librewolf, Firefox | Ungoogled-chromium |
| All messaging apps | Element (matrix) | Signal |
| Google Home, Amazon Alexa | Home Assistant | |
| Play Store | F-droid, Aurora | |
| Google Android, iOS | LineageOS, GrapheneOS | |
| Windows, MacOS | Linux Mint |
🔨 = Self-Hosted only (requires running a server)
signal runs on amazon servers. Anything that can’t self host and isn’t federate isn’t worth it. Matrix (and element) fill this requirement. But IMHO, the best is XMPP where you can self-host or use federated servers located in other countries.
Delta chat is basically email.
Why? Because it’s torrents?
Other alternatives would be viaplay or britbox. Unfortunately there’s no legal alternative that’s available in all europe.
Aurora is just a front-end for google playstore. You should add f-droid
Why would you prefer XMPP? Last time I checked most features (like E2EE) weren’t part of the base protocol.
It supports mail, but also has an encrypted normal chat backend AFAIK
Yes, it’s not really a good alternative since it’s illegal. I’m not judging but it’s not a good option for most people.
Droid-ify is F-droid
Just because it is not part of the base protocol, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or supports it.
I like it for personal reasons. Just because is lightweight and there are way much more servers than matrix, imho makes it better. However, In the end it boils down to personal preferences and your attack surface.
WHen i tried it years ago, it was just a normal email with a special subject that the delta chat client would read, parse and display.
you should try it again, Delta Chat is totally on a different level than a few years ago, there has been tons of improvements, I started using it around 2018, now I am even contributing to it
If everything is e2e encrypted do servers actually matter?
yes. Metadata. some protocols leak more info than the others.
Also servers in only one place (institution), only makes it easier for the government to go to that place and seize them.
And what metadata is Signal leaking? As far as I know even their notifications are not sending the message.
The government seizing an entire batch of amazon servers seems unrealistic, but the data would be encrypted anyway. Do they even store messages on servers, anyway?
We don’t know. We don’t have access to what’s running on their servers. (yes i know that the source code is available, but there’s no way to check if that’s the same thing running on the servers). And this is a problem for me: i have to trust a walled garden.
Usually the government goes there a just takes whatever is in the rack they want. Screw the legal business that are there. That’s what happened with the pirate bay raid. If the US government wants to shut it down. It just needs to knock on the amazon door.
The problem is that you have to trust them. You have to trust a chain of organizations based in the US. Signal pays millions (who pays for this? i have my doubts that monthly donations will pay for this forever) to amazon for the servers. So using them and sending them money is the same as giving money to amazon.
If you are fine with these risks, then use it. Better using signal than using messenger and whatsapp.
Aren’t they audited, tho?
But isn’t this true for most services, such as Matrix as well? Nothing assures that a Matrix instance is running the exact code on git.
But if your threat model is the goverment, aren’t all services affected as well? If they want to take element’s servers, they will. If you selfhost and they want to take your server, they will?
I feel like in communication apps you’re always going to have to rely on trust. Even if you self-host in a Swiss server, with the best intentions and security practices… Other people are going to have to trust you. You trust yourself, but others might not.
It’s valid for any server. But for signal messaging is even worse than the competitors because it’s centralized.
Correct. With signal there’s no way to escape the US government, but with matrix (or other federated protocol) you can make it harder, so it won’t be worth it the resources spent. You can also host it where the US government don’t have any reach.
But who is more trustworthy? The US government or the swiss government?
Also, the point is to avoid american services. Signal is an american service.
and how is that exactly a problem? the protocol is email, but email done right is actually good and fast, as it can be tested if you actually try out the app. The new chatmail servers are optimized for chatting, the main reason classic email providers suck is because they have to deal with spam and arbitrary decisions like gray-listing etc
Email isn’t a good protocol for instant messaging (it wasn’t designed for real time communication and it lacks some features like typing indicators or voice/video calls)
it is pointless to talk in theory without actually trying things out, besides the app doesn’t have to do only email, in fact it already has p2p support for real-time that can be used for now inside the https://webxdc.org/ mini-apps, and might be used for calls in the future, or just use WebRTC for calls, one of the mini-apps in the store “Live Chat” already has typing indicators btw. The app already has Jitsi Meet invitations integration.
Chatting in Delta Chat with chatmail feels just as fast as WhatsApp, Telegram etc. sometimes even faster depending on the chatmail server you use
That’s cool!
I’m not going to change my IM app, because i’m happy with, but it’s nice to know of alternatives.