Looks like a totally reasonable response.
/s
Targetted attacks hitting terrorist hideouts!
And when you consider every person, building, mailbox, hospital, refugee camp, and blade of grass a terrorist hideout, it sure makes things simple.
Have a look at pictures of Berlin after WW2 sometime.
Civilians are the first and last to suffer in war. That does not mean a war is not justified or necessary.
The Geneva Convention was a direct result of the horrors of WWII.
Yes, and one of the things it deems a war crime is collective punishment.
Yep. I guess it doesn’t count if you don’t recognise a nation as a country though, right? 🫤
Israel’s response has already killed thousands of innocent people. Why is it necessary? Is a mass bombing of residential areas the only response to an attack? In the first night of bombing they leveled entire villages in Palestine. Whole families were killed, who had no connection to Hamas or any militant group.
It is necessary to destroy Hamas, Hamas made it necessary.
It’s not only unnecessary, but won’t even work to destroy Hamas. A supporter of Hamas could just as easily say that the brutality of their attack was necessary to destroy the Zionist government of Israel.
Strategic bombing was widely put into question after wwii
The allies should have held back.
A fraction of what the US did to Iraq after 9/11.
Proportional response to terrorism seems to only be called for when it’s Jews being slaughtered.
Hamas hides under ground. This is just clearing the way, once the ground forces move in, they’ll clear the rest.
Both things can be wrong at the same time.
I’ve literally never heard anyone justifying the US reaction to 9/11 before. Do you really believe that was an appropriate response?
Going to the wrong country and blowing it apart when Afghanistan and Pakistan were the culprits?
YES
Now no, but back when it was current there was a lot.
It caused the biggest protest march in history in the UK. I thought it was the same in the US.
I felt like I was going crazy here in the US, as the media was beating the drums of war hard and dipshits were all over the place with huge American flags flying on their trucks. There may have been some protests, but I remember just about everyone feeling it was justified. It was bizarre.
There were big protests in DC. I’m fairly apolitical but I was out there with a sign and everything.
Even standing there with all those people, though, I remember thinking “this will make no difference in the end.”
Americans are a bit weird with their enthusiasm for all things military.
I mean, that IS where a good chunk of their propoganda is targeted towards achieving
The media called it the war on terror for a while. And people were for the most part very patriotic. I don’t think there was a ton of resistance to it here.
Yeah, I said a lot justified it, that doesn’t mean there weren’t sane people wondering why the fuck we were in Iraq even though it was terrorists from Afghanistan (And Saudi Arabia) that attacked the US.
There wasn’t a single Afghani on any of those planes
The orders for 9/11 were given from Al Qaeda which just happened to be based in Afghanistan. The US went after the leadership of Al Qaeda (eventually), thus Afghanistan. It wasn’t a war against the Afghanis, it was a war against Al Qaeda.
Over 300 children were killed by Israeli bombings in the first night in response to the attack. You are telling me that is a justified reaction?
Not at all. Hopefully the world will wake up soon. They were their first. Israel is using religion as their right to be there, and cherry-picking versus out of the Bible to back up their cause. These are human beings, not terrorists.
This is just clearing the way,
That’s a pretty brutal thing to say.
War is brutal. Hamas should have thought twice before starting one.
Do you think that wiping out a bunch of Palestinians who had nothing to do with Hamas is justified? The majority of people under attack right now aren’t terrorists.
I totally agree with you that Hamas needs to go, but I don’t think the IDF is going about it in the right way. For every Hamas soldier that they kill, they are killing innocent civilians. The survivors are going to be radicalized.
I don’t know if I would call 20% a fraction, but you are right to say the total number of bombs dropped in Iraq by the US and UK was higher. I think it’s good to remember that the 30,000ish dropped in Iraq was over 8 years. Israel have reportedly used more than 6000 in less than a week.
How many have Hamas fired into Israel/ been caught in the iron dome the past few years?
I don’t have numbers to hand but I’d posit a guess that it’s significantly less.
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to defend them. What happened last week is pretty indefensible by any reasonable person. I can see the motivations and frustrations but it’ was flat out wrong. Terrorism. However, as a democratic nation with a much more organised military and government, a lot more is expected of Israel. They have every right to seek some recompense but they’ve taken it too far. Further than the US and UK did.
I don’t have numbers to hand but I’d posit a guess that it’s significantly less.
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to defend them. What happened last week is pretty indefensible by any reasonable person. I can see the motivations and frustrations but it’ was flat out wrong. Terrorism. However, as a democratic nation with a much more organised military and government, a lot more is expected of Israel. They have every right to seek some recompense but they’ve taken it too far. Further than the US and UK did.
I don’t have numbers to hand but I’d posit a guess that it’s significantly less.
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to defend them. What happened last week is pretty indefensible by any reasonable person. I can see the motivations and frustrations but it’ was flat out wrong. Terrorism. However, as a democratic nation with a much more organised military and government, a lot more is expected of Israel. They have every right to seek some recompense but they’ve taken it too far. Further than the US and UK did.
I don’t have numbers to hand but I’d posit a guess that it’s significantly less.
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to defend them. What happened last week is pretty indefensible by any reasonable person. I can see the motivations and frustrations but it’ was flat out wrong. Terrorism. However, as a democratic nation with a much more organised military and government, a lot more is expected of Israel. They have every right to seek some recompense but they’ve taken it too far. Further than the US and UK did.
Please seriously think on what you’re saying about your fellow human beings here.
I’m seriously considering why you think a terrorist deserves to live, when their explicit goal is to murder an entire race of people.
This madness stops when Hamas is destroyed.
As long as there is injustice to exploit terrorists will never run out of recruits. What do you think will happen to all those kids who witnessed the bombings? Do you think they’ll agree it was justified?
I’m not even saying that some kind of violent response wouldn’t have been justified, but if you actually want to stop terrorism, this isn’t the way. It’s adding fuel to a fire
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It’s not “western approved” any more than “Hamas” equals “the entire Gaza population” or “Bibi’s nutcases” equals “Israelis”. But my government doesn’t give a shit about my opinion om the matter, unfortunately. And there are apparently precious few politicians who are avle and willing to recognise the atrocities of both sides.
I do think the Israeli govt. is haemorrhaging support right now. It has cultivated generations who are not ok with the crazy funding it receives from the global west. The Israeli govt. setup of huge aid receipts is on a timer.
Biden just announced another funding for Israel
The statement was focused on the idea that what a government does is not inherently supported or approved by its citizens in all cases. Often the citizens have no control over the actions a govt takes especially with aid or combat.
Just because Biden and his admin are approving aid doesn’t mean the West and it’s inhabitants approve.
Wilford Brimley?
Everything comes down to Florida. Always does.
The israeli state had better make the most of it while they can. I’m sure they will. The tap will be turned off soon.
The tap will be turned off soon
are you delusional? the tap has been on for decades what makes you think it will be turned off soon? they’re only going to increase funding to israel
and god forbid the war escalates to lebanon and beyond, the amount of money will dwarf the ukrainian war
it’s the ukrainian tap that’s about to get turned off. israel is new priority, ukraine about to get tossed to the side. russia already making gains this week
I fully agree re. Russia and Ukraine, bad times ahead for Ukraine. Patience was wearing thin and aid to Israel is a pretty watertight excuse for shrugging off Ukraine right now.
I’m not delusional though, and you don’t need to jump to such ad hominem attacks with someone arguing with you politely and in good faith.
I stand by my comments about US and other funding for Israel being on the timer, but perhaps “soon” is ungrounded. I can point to a groundswell in anger and revulsion among younger generations (who already bridled at their arguments against Israeli state support being dismissed as anti-semitic) as the Israeli state is showing how exactly they will employ all the weapons and armaments sent their way for so long.
Hamas has few friends in the west, and is not set to make many at the moment, but the plight of the people in Gaza, both historical and current, is getting passed around in gory gifs right now. Hearts and minds will, at some point, translate to votes, which will manifest in policy change.
Of course, by the time it does, Bibi+cronies will probably have exiled/killed the entire civilian and armed population of Gaza, so the point may well be moot, I fear
i apologize for the delusional comment. it just seemed to me like a crazy thing to say, but you’re right there’s no need for that type of attitude
i understand where you’re coming from. many videos have already been shared of palestinian civilians getting blown up for no good reason other than being inconvenient for israel
however, i think it is a bit naive to believe this will change anything. believe me, i don’t say this to try and insult you. i think if majority of people thought like you did we probably wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with. but the world runs on a simple philosophy - might makes right.
israel has been abusing these people for nearly half a century. they’ve been killing and bombing them with impunity and the US and friends have been sending billions of dollars to Israel in order to help this process. they will not stop until the ethnic cleansing is complete and the US will support them all of the way there.
just look at the response in europe right now. both germany and france have banned pro-palestinian protests. fairly soon i expect to see social media start to become censored. reddit already started removing certain videos
No reason to shut off aid to Ukraine. We can operate in multiple theaters at once. That’s the point of outspending the next 12 countries on our military. If anything, this makes it easier as the Dems will bundle Israeli and Ukrainian aid, and the Republicans just flipped back to hawks.
there’s only so much industrial capacity we have available. bullets and bombs don’t just materialize out of thin air, no matter how much money you throw at it. triage will be performed and ukraine is not a priority any longer. israel is key to american strategy in the middle east. ukraine is an afterthought, only supported because it was a cheap way to harm russia.
Hamas doesn’t equal the entire Gaza population the majority is younger than 14
This conflict has been going on for decades. Palestinians have been pushed out of their land for decades. Many were able to immigrate elsewhere, but by separating the population from each other and it’s original land, this can slowly erase their ethnicity.
And America has given them hundreds of billions of dollars over the last few decades to keep doing this.
I’d say that’s Western approved ethnic cleansing
Making a guess here… Hamas has been democratically elected since… 2006?.. assume cognitive memory and tribal biases really start becoming rigid around 7 years old… anyone under 24 has only known the message of hamas’ government and lived under the gaslighting. I’d assume the youth are pretty onboard, no?
Hamas was democratically elected once with 45% of the vote, then stopped holding elections.
A lot of olive trees grow in Palestine. The symbol of peace originated from the culture of Palestinians. Meanwhile, Israelis burn olive farmers’ trees in land they continue to steal today (but we don’t call it stealing, we call it “settling”)
So, given that a majority of Palestinians didn’t vote for Hamas, and the origins of the culture are rooted in peace anyways, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest most of those minors are on board with Hamas. Not to suggest many aren’t radicalized, but I’m honestly surprised more than 45% wouldn’t vote for Hamas considering how many generations of people are living in an open air prison.
Israel is shutting off all power, food, medicine, water, and bombing a city about the population of Los Angeles, but 4x denser, and mostly minors. This operation will take months if not years. This is an insane war crime at a scale we haven’t seen since world war 2
Okay. That was a generation ago. My point was that it’s all the people have known. If you’re saying they’ve only consolidated power since, you’re validating my point.
And none of the other responses have to do with my comment.
Also fwiw it’s neither Palestinian nor Greek. It’s from the story of Noah. The bird brought back an olive branch having found land, and it became the symbol of the end of the conflict, peace.
A lot of olive trees grow in Palestine. The symbol of peace originated from the culture of Palestinians.
Owch, now that’s bullshit. First, when this particular symbol came into use, there was no such thing as Palestinians, the whole area was Jewish, Phoenician etc. Second, it’s Greek.
I’ve said many times what I think of Israelis, but that’s genocidal (as in whitewashing) rhetoric right here.
Look it up, you don’t have to take my word for it
Edit: also, you’re just going to ignore the part of Israel committing one of the worst war crimes of the century?
Look it up, you don’t have to take my word for it
There’s nothing but your word (or anything just as credible) for it.
Edit: also, you’re just going to ignore the part of Israel committing one of the worst war crimes of the century?
Yeah, since that’s not what I’m answering to.
Israel has the unwavering support of the United States, it may not have unanimous approval, but that is de facto western support.
From our government. Not our people. Most people can tell both sides to grow the fuck up and stop acting like 4 year olds in a pissing contest that costs people lives. I hate that our government making decisions makes all of us ok with it. We aren’t.
Yes, I meant the government
The US =/= “The West”. Just because you can’t be bothered to distinguish the 2 doesn’t mean they’re actually the same
America is the West when it comes to military support
The opposite in fact. The diaspora has been very angry with Bibi for years and that’s led to external pressure that’s caused him problems at home, even though he’s been able to withstand.
He just had his George Bush 9/11 moment, the country and the Diaspora are fully supportive of Israel right now.
The promise of safety has been shattered. However much I hate Bibi and believe he needs to be in jail, he full well understands what needs to happen to restore the feeling of safety to the people who are feeling very violated right now. It’s going to be ferocious.
I think that even though Hamas are trying to “destroy Israel” they’re really hurting Palestine way more in an indirect way, and this is why I hate them.
No offense to either country though.
My first thought after the initial visceral reaction was “we really need to get Hamas out of there”
Moderate/secular palestinians everywhere. My first reaction to Hamas’ attacks was a comprehensive list of every ableist slur i know.
BUT: We’d do well to remember that Netanyahu and his coalition are the people that try to conflate Hamas with palestinian liberation. I hope it will cost them their power.
Nah it’s direct, Hamas can only get recruits by getting more Palestinians to hate israel
Launch a massive terrorist attack, provoke an even bigger terrorist response out of vengeance bloodthirst, voilà, instant recruitment drive just add war crimes
Hamas is the equal partner and willing collaborator to Netenyahu’s genocide of the Palestinian people.
Damn.
So they were not really hurt before?
They’ve definitely been hurt before, but this time is definitely the cruelest in decades.
Hamas cares about their own power. Not Palestinians.
I knew they had to be exploiting. But I guess I can blame the Israeli gov for that as well.
Yes actually, Netanyahu has been known to support Hamas and suppress liberal democratic parties. It’s not even a secret.
Good god centrists should just never open their mouths. Should they just allow Israel to finish the genocide quietly? Would that be better for you?
You’re an absolute idiot if you think Hamas is anything more than a religious terrorism group. They do not and have never cared about the Palestinians at all beyond a recruitment pool.
Also ignoring the fact that massacreing innocent civilians, many of whom were actively pro Palestine, and raping any woman they find before killing them, is even remotely justified. It’s not justified when Israel does it, and it’s still not justified when Hamas does it back.
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I mean it’s not like a bunch of Palestinians woke up one day and went “we should form a terrorist organization and kill a bunch of random people for no reason”. There’s been a long path to get here.
Please look into how Netanyahu has tried (successfully) to conflate Hamas and palestinian liberation. He and his like have supported Hamas to undermine the PLO, a secular organization, simply because Hamas is a more convenient enemy to face.
Please don’t fall for his propaganda and attempt to force all support for Palestine to go through Hamas.
I’m not? I’m not in favor of Hamas, lol. I’m just pointing out how ignorant 90% of the comments I read sound as if no one’s ever heard of an abused dog biting back.
Y’know when I read your earlier comment my first thought was “this guy thinks of us as nothing but dogs to sacrifice to whatever cause they’re on this week”, but then you literally came right out and made the comparison yourself.
Bougeyevik Fetishizers, easier shots to call than a physics demonstration.
Whatever that all is supposed to mean, I haven’t a clue. You murder people for decades and then make surprised Pikachu face when they murder back. Just silly.
Centrists are the ones most likely to want peace between the two sides, instead of a most likely bloody victory of one over the other.
Nah, centrists are people that know jack shit about anything but automatically agree with whatever the most people are saying.
Hey look everyone it’s a fetishizer who thinks everything up to breaking into panic room vaults and dragging the actively not participating occupants out to murder them in the streets is perfectly acceptable conduct when one of us global southers does it, because moral conduct is apparently white privilege to these racist shitbags.
What’s especially egregious is that these very same acts would be condemned in the harshest words possible if israel were doing them, and I know that because they are when israel does do those things. The act is what is immoral, not the people committing it, and not doing terrible shit is not some act of virtue signaling or privilege, it’s the default state of action anyone who isn’t a fucking psychopath is capable of adhering to passively.
Well with that well informed and definitely not pulled out of your ass first sentence I’m sure to be convinced to continue reading your nuanced take on me as a person.
Since Hamas came to power Gaza has one of the fastest growing populations in the world.
There is no genocide other than the one Hamas calls for against the Jews. It’s literally in their founding Charter if you care to read the document.
So because they have a fast growing population it’s ok to kill? them?? Like it’s not genocide if there are a lot of them? Think about what you’re saying. These are people, not cockroaches.
Look at these demographics (go to Gaza). As of 2018 most of the population wasn’t even 18. What do you think that does to a people?
They need guidance not bombs
Yes it is an offense teaching suffering palestinians from your 1st world sofa.
I’m from a third world country that has internet slower than 3G at times. And we don’t even have sofas where I’m from.
Also, despite the neutrality of our government about this issue, most people are protesting in solidarity with Palestine.
I gave you enough clues. I’m Moroccan.
touche.
I sit on a 1st world sofa, but I try not to teach people on what to do when being bombed.
In the basque country the nazi army was invited by the dictator to peacefully bomb Gernika. Franco’s next in charge had to go. We had the resources to do it, but Palestine or Hamas don’t have the military capability to depose that zionist gvt.
So they do what they can.
it is an offense teaching suffering … from your 1st world sofa.
I sit on a 1st world sofa, but I try not to teach people on what to do when being bombed.
proceeds to try to teach about suffering and what should be allowed to be done from a 1st world sofa
So in other words, a hypocrite by your own account.
Hamas is a terrorist group. Stop defending terrorists. You can argue for Palestinian rights without defending terrorists and terrorist acts. Fighting against an oppressor is not the same as killing civilians at a music festival.
Its really scary how many people dont get this. What Isreal is doing is fucking terrible, but what happened at the music festival and surrounding area was also atrocious. Its mindblowing that so many people not immediately affected by those events cant see that BOTH things are awful, those immediately impacted, completely understandable that they cant and wont see nuance, the rest of the world? Yeesh
Netanyahu needs to be tried for war crimes.
Hans are we the baddies?
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Isreal didn’t need to kill and destroy civilian lives for retribution.
As Sherman, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki have shown: War is hell.
Okay but that was a six year war against a comparable nation, at the time the Empire had colonized Korea and half of China so it was pretty sizeable. I think a lot of people have and will continue to argue that the nuclear bombs saved more lives than they ended.
Palestine on the other hand is a small part of the much larger Israel which is completely walled off and resource dependent on Israel including power and water which has been cut for almost a week. Israel have literally not even attempted a Ground Assault and spent the last 5 days doing nothing but Aerial Bombardment. They’re not digging trenches to hold back Hamas in even the wildest of imaginations, they’re just pressing buttons to annihilate massive complexes. Is one jew worth ten Palestinians?
I think a lot of people have and will continue to argue that the nuclear bombs saved more lives than they ended.
They traded the lives of combatants who have a reasonable expectation of bodily harm or death with civilian lives. The US traded a grueling war for war crimes. (Don’t get me wrong, Japan committed their fair share of atrocities during WW2, but that doesn’t excuse the nukes)
Japan should’ve tried winning😎
Oh, I think they tried…
The Japanese leadership didn’t surrender after the firebombing of Tokyo, they didn’t surrender after the bombs, they surrendered after the Soviets declared war. The Generals didn’t give a fuck about the population, and Operation Meetinghouse caused just as many casualties as an atomic bomb. But what they definitely wanted to avoid at all costs was a Soviet occupation.
That’s fair and about 98% true but it wasn’t just a trade for combatant’s lives since after taking the islands the war was now on the Japanese Mainland in addition to the atrocities happening in the Japanese Colonies on the Asian Mainland and the intent of the Japanese to once again attack the Americas (though incredibly unlikely at that point in the war). My point still stands that comparing the power dynamic of the Nipon Empire and USA to that of Hamas and Israel is ingenuine.
For sure though, USA leadership should have been removed and held accountable for using Nuclear weapons on a densely populated area. Maybe even executed.
Never said they needed, just that it should’ve been expected.
Why do you assume Hamas cares about any of these innocent casualties?
Hamas absolutely loves this shit. This is their wet dream.
This will give them more recruits.
All according to plan for Hamas, they grow stronger every day, because they were put there by Egypt, Saudi, and Iran to sow discord in Palestine. I bet Netanyahu is loving it, too.
Are they, though? What is Israel supposed to do when the militarized terrorists use civilians as human shields? Not respond and get slaughtered by Hamas again?
I’m seriously asking: what strategy do you suggest for Israel? All answers I can think of right now are laughable in the face of the ideology and moral state of Hamas.
guarantee safe passage of women, children, and maybe elderly to west bank at the very least. slow infantry ground war to weed out and forcibly relocate noncombatants.
they didn’t even try.
Being female or younger than 18 is no guarantee of not working for Hamas. Moving a group with a high percentage of terrorists embedded in it to infrastructure they want to target in an area with more accessible resources for weapons construction is a non-starter.
I think the best we can hope for is some distant country with the resources to keep the refugee group monitored for terrorist activity agrees to take a few hundred thousand people. Palestinians working in a Chinese state-owned manufacturing facility would be extremely problematic but maybe less bad than the alternatives.
@Duxon @adrian783 The West Bank is up next. The settlers have been displacing the locals there for years and that’s most of the soldiers were on Oct 7th.
that’s why Hamas did this. there are no good options for Israel. hamas knew that such a brutal attack would embarrass the right-wing leadership of israel and bait them into a brutal reaction
they are bombing the shit out of gaza to show their population they are doing something. but they know this bombing does very little. hamas has been preparing for this. they have a complex tunnel system underground. they’ve been stockpiling diesel, water, food, etc. the blockade is simply hurting the civilian population
hamas played israel like a fiddle. well, we’ll see. i think their goal is to expand this into a regional war. hezbollah promised they would join the war should israel launch a ground invasion. israel says it will, but i don’t know if it’s a bluff or not.
Hamas’s aim may have been to make Israel look bad from their retaliation and rally the other Middle Eastern enemies of Israel. But we don’t really know yet.
Edit: Caspian report just came out with a really great video about the complicated web of relationships that may have caused it, including torpedoing an Israel peace deal. https://youtu.be/2xjmelFwJow
It’s not working though. Israel has massive support. Gaza is in ruins. Israel have the excuse and political capital to spend to completely remove Gaza from the map. If I lived in Gaza I would be disgusted with the irresponsible and atrocious actions of Hamas.
Definitely. But information was imperfect too, maybe Hamas thought Israel’s recent political turmoil over trying to weaken the judicial branch. But still a horrible action and probably a massive blunder on Hamas’ part.
it’s possible they really did not expect to penetrate so far inside Israel.
Potentially Israel also had prior warning from Egypt.
If the Israeli Government reacts with the same level of proportion as they have done every time since the far-right took power there, not even the vastly superior Israeli Propaganda Machine will be able to offset the impact on anybody but the most tribalist Israeli supporters of the picture of mass graves and dead women and children that will come out of this, especially if the blockade of Gaza leads to mass deaths from thirst and starvation.
It actually makes a lot of sense that Hamas escalated things this much because of just how bad Israeli escalation will look if they maintain the disproportion of reaction levels that they’ve had so far.
The leaderships on both sides couldn’t care less about human life.
That’s surely it, Hamas playing 4D chess. 😂
And they had to have known this would be the outcome.
So that was part of their calculation.
They knew they would retaliate, but this is frankly disgusting.
Israel wanted this and are milking it for all it’s worth. What Israel is doing is an extremely disproportionate and exaggerated response in an attempt to continue to grab as much land as illegally as possible.
Gaza is already one of the most densely populated places on earth, and they want to cut their available land in half.
It’s insane that it’s being supported. Palestine does something and even the British send Warships to help. Israel does something far worse and the most we get is the EU saying “hmm this might not be legal”. It sucks.
Because they’re fighting terrorists. That’s why, it’s not black and white like you’re making it out to be.
A terrorist movement that they, in part, have created and continue to fuel for decades.
Terrorism can only be squashed by de-escalation, even if it takes decades. Otherwise you’re just perpetuating the cycle of violence.
My guess is that this was a catastrophic success for them. They probably planned the attack assuming significant resistance from the IDF. A few fighters would make it through the defenses. If they got lucky, they would be able to take a handful of hostages back into Gaza. Enough to score a political win and maybe earn a few concessions from the hostage negotiation, but not enough to upset the status quo.
When the IDF underperformed, Hamas was left with an attack that went too well, and now has to deal with an enemy that has decided to properly mobilize.
The fun part is you can’t win! The US proves it just like the Soviets before them, colonial Europe so on so forth.
Dude, does this look like a “hostage rescue”? They were presumed dead the moment they got abducted. Hamas can claim victory all they want, all I see is Israel grabbing even more land.
Egypt should have told Hamas that they told Israel that the attack was going to happen, and that Israel was letting it happen. Netanyahu has been dreaming of having an excuse to wipe out Hamas, and Palestine, for decades.
Egypt should be in the headlines for their fortified borders, and lack of support.
I don’t blame Egypt for not wanting to get involved directly
They’re as complicit as Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Gaza_barrier
In 2010, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared support for the barrier, adding: “It is the Egyptians’ sovereign right in their own country. Legitimate supplies should be brought through the legal crossings.”
pretty much this, it is still Egypt’s prerogative, why should they be made to open a border for a walled city when their host state doesn’t?
My answer is always, “What’s the other outcome?”
There were 100 Hamas terrorists holding hostages.
And keyboard warriors are going, “Well Israel dropped the ball!” And like, okay? So… Those hostages?
It’s a shit situation all around. Fuck-if-you-do, fuck-if-you-dont.
Israel allowed it to happen. Egypt announced that they showed Israel proof that it was going to happen, and the IDF strengthened their troop deployment in other parts of Israel. Egypt should have told Hamas that they were walking into a trap.
Genuinely? This is probably exactly what they expected. The only question is if this is what they were hoping for. Reprisals from Israel don’t drive people away from Hamas, there’s nowhere else they can go. It drives people toward them.
They’re doing everything by the book. This is exactly what they were expecting.
Who even is that, and why should I listen to them? Seems like some rando doing vids in their basement.
You don’t have to, just thought you might find it interesting.
He’s a former journalist, current political activist/humanitarian. Incredibly well-read and knowledgeable.
tbf, you’re a rando posting your opinion on it to the internet just like him, just in text format. Why should we listen to you?
With that said, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You can listen, take it in, and research more if something doesn’t seem right to you.
Yes but one rando posting a video of another rando with no sources is even less credible than the singular rando just stating the opinion himself. People who believe “experts” without citations are unfortunately too common in this world.
There’s no difference between randos on the internet, everything is taken with a grain of salt and healthy suspicion. Doesn’t matter which rando it comes from.
Let me put it this way: If a man told me he was a medical doctor and another man also claimed to be a doctor and showed me a medical license written in crayons, which would I be more likely to believe?
Let me put it this way: Straw man arguments won’t work here.
edit: “A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction”
I’m just trying to have a discussion, not indoctrinate people to my way of thinking. Pretty sure I haven’t made a single factual claim.
A bunch of ragtag militiamen vs one of the most advanced militaries in the world. I get that they’re desperate, but this was an inevitable outcome (as terrible as it is).
This seems like you’re trying to make a factual claim. Again, I don’t disagree with it but you’re just a rando on the internet just like the dude in the video. At least he’s put his face and name to his allegations/opinions.
I think it’s telling there was no reply,
Because if you look closely with a keen eye,
There was just a guy,
No one knows who he is,
But he says to listen to his ideas,
Opinion after opinion but lacking constitution,
Unable to face the prosecution.
He definitely is, and yet he is also shockingly insightful. I haven’t watched this particular video, but I’ve watched others of his and his takes are smarter and more nuanced than I expected. That’s not an endorsement, just adding context from someone who recognized him.
He’s definitely at least a little more than a rando.
Beau is a very smart person who generally does not make a lot of mistakes with his analysis.
He has contact with a lot of good journalists and experts.
The place he is recording from is a studio that was made to look like his okd garage, where he actually started making videos from, but as the channel took off he increased the quality of the videos a lot, he also hires people to research and fact check him afaik.
Guy is kinda just really smart and good at what he does.
Holy shit, man! I thought I was looking at a drawing of a post apocalypse wasteland.
Not quite “post” yet. Still apocalypsing.
Aren’t you?
It’s very reminiscent of Gone with the Blastwave.
Don’t worry guys, they’ve finally decided it’s safe enough for a ground assault starting maybe tomorrow. /sarcasm
Horrifying.
Would you believe all those apartments were owned by Hamas terrorists? Jolly convenient if you ask me.
A good reminder, who you vote for matters
Don’t vote in a government party running on a platform of exterminating another race… Especially when that other race has the ability to totally fuck your shit up
*Edit: Or, whatever… Go ahead and vote in the racist fear mongering populist and see how it shakes out. Hopefully it’s worth it
Lol they haven’t held elections since 2006
Additionally 50% of the Gaza strip wouldn’t even be able to vote… You know, because they are under 18
I think they were talking about Israel
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There’s something to be said about how this applies to almost every side in this conflict.
The problem is people are given little power, a vote every couple of years, and even when a significant number of people don’t vote for the winning party, everyone in the country as a whole is slapped all of the responsibility by the international community and those in power aren’t interested in representing anyone but themselves. Everyone criticizes like this, regardless of how much nuance they demand people take into consideration when it involves their own country.
Hamas doesn’t have elections. So fsck you.
Flood it and make it a coral reef… that way no one gets what they want cept me and the fishes
Beautiful light! ❤️
If you can, please donate:
- https://www.map.org.uk/donate/donation-details/352
- https://humanappeal.org.uk/appeals/gaza-emergency-appeal
Even more organisations here:
https://buildpalestine.com/2021/05/15/trusted-organizations-to-donate-to-palestine/
Hamas somehow repurposed wheat bags to be used within their tunnels, I am pretty sure out every donated dollar, 50 cents goes to their war effort (yes, my Very Scientific Measurements ™)
There’s gotta be some way to force warlords off the international aid being sent to people in need
Donating here supports terrorists. Donate to the Red Cross.
Well what do l did you expect would happen after Hamas savagely murdered babies, children, families? Israel would kiss and make up?
Welcome to the real world where if a group says it’s entire aim is to eradicate you, you eradicate then first. It’s called war. Or survival if you prefer
That’s not called a war, that’s called genocide and most people would conclude it a bad thing.
Seems to not be a problem when it’s the Jews being targeted for genocide. Hamas is literally founded on the idea of killing all Jews and Hamas is supported internationally with billions in aid dollars.
Weird how that works.
Anywhoo, Israel is going to protect itself by removing the threat. They’ve opened corridors for civilians to get to safety, you know who’s telling people to stay? Hamas WANTS civilians to stay and be human shields. Their leaders are living fat in Qatar sending kids to die and the world is trying to frame them as anything other than the terrorists they are. I’m grateful Israel is more concerned with the safety of their people than they are public perception right now.
Yes, and you should look into the link between Israel and Hamas. They needed an existential enemy to blame shit on so they made one.
No it’s not at all.
And bombed those corridors. Yes, terrorists acting like terrorists, how curious, now tell me why that negates Israels obligation to not commit genocide in anger.
You seen to think I’m for either, if I’m being honest I think the only solution realistically is to evacuate everyone from the Levant and bomb it to rubble and quarantine it so they have nothing to fight over. In love history and partially architecture but, you want an effective solution that’s your answer. It won’t stop either side from being terrorists but it won’t happen is Israel anymore.
I’m familiar with the origin story, Hamas started as an aide group before turning terrorist. Israel has used them to their advantage, much like the US used Iraq and Afghanistan to theirs in the past.
That doesn’t eliminate the requirement of Hamas being destroyed.
If you want to claim Israel created them, then it’s up to Israel to destroy them and they’re working on that now.
Good, then why play dumb?
You can’t destroy a existential threat, even if you destroyed one group it would spawn another.
They simply can’t bud.
It’s not so simple. Israel have acted in bad faith and abandoned promises before as well so Hamas and those in Gaza felt they were pushed.
The problem now has been that generations of trauma and conflict placed both Israel and Palestine to support hardliners in their own. After all, Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is filled with ultranationalists who don’t want to compromise. Conversely, the last election of Palestine elected for Hamas, an extremist group in Gaza (the West Bank elected for the moderate PLO but they are effectively muzzled by Netanyahu).
Genocide is bad. But they aren’t doing genocide. They dropped millions of pamphlets and SMS messages telling the people to leave and go south because they will be attacking Hamas in the north of Gaza.
They are targeting weapons depo and underground tunnels
1 million+ people can’t evacuate in 24 hours. And they haven’t been able to. The IDF have attacked the convoy and children have been killed: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364
Bullshit. The IDF did not attack the convoy. After further investigation it seems to be a gas cylinder that exploded.
The IDF guarantees safe passage.
What you may not know is that Hamas set up a roadblock on those roads, preventing people leaving. They want all the people to die in the bombing so that they can blame a massacre on Israel. These guys are very sly. Remember they are terrorists.
Also, a load of Palestinians have gathered at the hospital, even though Israel said to evacuate it. Why? The tunnels go under the hospital and the leaders and their weapons are stored there. They are using the hospital and these crowds as human shields.
You better understand that Israel are the good guys and Hama’s are the bad guys.
Please provide some evidence to back up these claims.
The “innocent civilians” sheltered inside the Shafaa hospital compound in Gaza cheer when the last barrage is launched towards Tel Aviv - I remind you that firing statistical weapons such as rockets at civilian population concentrations is a war crime according to international law!!!
Here the link:
Some actual verified evidence, this is a group chat. This also doesn’t address the fact that the IDF told over a million people to evacuate within 24 hours and then fired on them. If you think that’s reasonable then we have completely different ethical outlooks.
And the Nazis warned the Jews of the crystal knacht.
Palestine doesn’t really have either of those, that is propaganda. It’s the most watched place on earth by about a dozen nations with blockaded every points.
Don’t jump so rapidly to suck Israels dick especially when the talking points don’t make actual sense.
