Hi all,

I’m seeing a lot of hate for capitalism here, and I’m wondering why that is and what the rationale behind it is. I’m pretty pro-capitalism myself, so I want to see the logic on the other side of the fence.

If this isn’t the right forum for a political/economic discussion-- I’m happy to take this somewhere else.

Cheers!

  • o_o@programming.devOPEnglish
    431·
    1 year ago

    It’s not a side effect, it’s an effect. It’s a feature. If companies could, they would externalize everything they could. Including paying workers as little as they can (or not at all, see slavery), or externalizing the health problems with the work (see radium girls), etc, etc,

    Right, but they can’t! That’s the whole point of capitalism! Slavery is the pinnacle of anti-capitalism, because slaves don’t own their own capital! It’s explicitly not capitalist.

      • o_o@programming.devOPEnglish
        331·
        1 year ago

        Please explain-- what gymnastics?

        Wikipedia definition of capitalism:

        Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

        If slaves don’t have private ownership… then they’re not living under a capitalist system. Right? What am I missing?

        • brandon@lemmy.mlEnglish
          131·
          1 year ago

          Slaves don’t have private ownership of their capital (that is, their own labor)… because someone else does.

          Most “free” workers, in terms of capital, own only their own labor.

          Capitalists own the majority of the capital–land, equipment, intellectual property, etc.

          A system where the workers own the capital (aka the means of production) is socialism.

    • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.caEnglish
      101·
      1 year ago

      I think I see the problem: You think you have capitalism in the US. You do not have capitalism in the US (or Canada, or Europe). You have regulated capitalism.

      The more capitalism you have, the fewer rules and regulation.

      Capitalism in its true, unfettered form with no rules will give you everything I said: Externalize everything, low/no pay, unsafe conditions, poison your workers, etc, etc,

      But we have regulated some bad parts. This regulation is not the result of capitalism. It expressly goes against capitalism.

      Right, but they can’t! That’s the whole point of capitalism!

      They can’t because we (unions/govt) said hey we need rules on this capitalism, because look at the effects of capitalism.

      So we’re back to the funny part. Now you ascribe the success of unions/government to be the success of capitalism. Funny how that works huh. You’re full package:All the problems of capitalism, you ascribe to government. And all the success of unions/government, you ascribe to capitalism. You have now turned around everything to fit your narrative.

      Slavery is the pinnacle of anti-capitalism

      Slavery, child labor, killing your workers (I don’t think you’ve read about the radium girls) is literally the pinnacle of capitalism. It’s literally what capitalism resulted in, it’s all over history.

    • mamotromico@lemmy.mlEnglish
      71·
      1 year ago

      they can’t

      Ah yes of course, that must be why no one ever finds people under working conditions analogous to slavery under capitalist states. Ever. Never happened.

      I’m trying to take this thread seriously, but my man you sound so naive it hursts. I live in a global south country and the ammount of damage done to my society due to both capitalism and imperialism (which benefit from each other, you can’t fully separate them) is revolting. You need to read more and travel more.

    • jake_eric@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      1 year ago

      The slaves don’t own capital because they are the capital!

      Nowhere in the definition of capitalism does it require that everyone owns capital; in fact it’s much more the opposite.