There is a “peace organization” here in Sweden, Svenska Freds, that are hard core pacifists. No matter what - pacifists. Their reasoning is like children. War is bad, everybody should be friends, the end. Reality should conform to this simple principle.
In the early days of the invasion, their loud public stance was that Sweden should not support Ukraine with military equipment. Ukraine was just as bad as Russia for defending themselves with weapons when they should use reason and diplomacy.
Then they got all weepy in the media when people called them useful idiots for Russia.
Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’. The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security. Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories. The Germans even run a spurious ‘freedom’ station which serves out pacifist propaganda indistinguishable from that of the P.P.U. They would stimulate pacifism in Russia as well if they could, but in that case they have tougher babies to deal with. In so far as it takes effect at all, pacifist propaganda can only be effective against those countries where a certain amount of freedom of speech is still permitted; in other words it is helpful to totalitarianism.
There’s this codepink in u.s. thats like this organization too, except only think remarkable about them is when their website was flooded with signatures from trolls that said things like hating african americans, praising zelensky or putin AND hitler in same sentence and using putin’s credentials as if it were a regular signature.
This reminds me of that cunt Caitlin Johnstone saying the simple solution in Ukraine was detente. As if that is an option when you’re defending against the entire removal of your culture, history, heritage, and people.
So if your country was being invaded you’d just lie down and take it? Perhaps even say thank you? You’re naive to think that talking will magically solve things when you’re against an enemy who clearly doesn’t have the same moral standards as you. They’re attempting to take what they want with force, they’ve already demonstrated that they don’t care for niceties like negotiation.
Imagine trying to talk it out with a mugger. They don’t care what you want to talk about. They want your money.
Every downvote is a vote for death, hatred, and suffering of innocents
This makes you sound like those moronic Facebook posts that say things like “1 like = 1 prayer, ignore = you hate puppies”. It’s not a good look.
Would I rather be alive and in a position to negotiate my freedom than dead? Gee, what a hard que–oh wait.
Seriously, I don’t get this. I don’t understand how people have become so hateful and spiteful and blood-thirsty. It’s Fox News, isn’t it? Right-wing, jingoistic, hyper-patriotic, “I can’t understand the second amendment because I think only half of it applies” bullshit.
Go find a heart. Compassion. Love. Prayer does nothing. War kills. Love, compassion, understanding, patience, and peace is what moves the world.
No, it’s you who do not understand because your brain is wired with violence and hatred and is unable to see past any of that to any possibility of peace. You are a relic of an ancient time of hatred and bullshit and you need to either rewire your brain and evolve, or stay silent and let people who want peace on this fucking planet be the adults we are.
Please go to Ukraine and test this routine on Russian soldiers, it will go really well for you, like that ad of Kendall Jenner solving racism with a Pepsi
Oh most enlightened one, ye who stands upon the highest of moral ground, please share with us your illuminated opinion of how the Ukraine should have responded? Or for that matter, any enemy who wishes to take your land and kill your people.
Clearly you are the most learned among us, and have solved the puzzle of how to overcome a violent enemy without resorting to violence, so please I beg of you oh sage one to teach us your great wisdom so that we may be as ethically correct as you.
EDIT
Aww I missed their rage response, I am guessing they had no better response than “let the violent party take whatever they want”? Yeah cause that’s a super great plan, and definitely doesn’t incentivize more violence.
I love how you turn pacifism around to “help the Russians” basically making me the villain while you advocate the killing of innocents and the destruction of cities. What a fucking hateful shit.
Here, let me bring some light into your understanding of the matter.
Imagine, and I want you to really visualize this, a large man has a visible gun on his belt. He demands that you strip nude and give him everything you have. There is no path you can run towards, he’s blocking the only exit and, again, has a gun. It just so happens that you also have a gun, and unlike his, yours is already drawn. What do you do?
Oh look, it’s hateful people imagining these fake no-win situations to justify their bloodlust. Grow up. Life is more complicated than your manipulative little fantasies.
It’s not a “simple question”, it’s a manipulative question by a fucking violent sociopath describing an impossible, this-or-that situation that will never exist and I’m fucking calling you out on it.
Talk about having no intellectual honesty. Look, you’ve lost. Get over it. People like me – pacifists who want people to continue living, who want peace, no violence, no hatred – have won. You are a relic of a long-past age of hatred and bullshit. Evolve or be silent.
I advocate the defense of people and cities. You advocate their surrender. You would trade anything for peace, especially justice. You would rather have a negative peace than accept that the world is not as simple as you would like it to be, and there are some enemies who are simply not interested in negotiation. You are what we call a “useful idiot.”
Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?
You are a hateful, war-mongering, inhuman monster.
Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?
Those are some very good questions to ask the aggressor, Russia.
What justice is there in rolling over and saying, “no, we don’t have a right to self-determination in any way, please take anything you want, Russia!” If push came to shove you would be a collaborator, and aider and abetter of war crimes to save your own skin, and that cognitive dissonance makes you so uncomfortable that you put on this humanitarian act in order to maintain a moral high ground that does not exist. It is not virtuous to allow others to kill you, dominate you, and steal from you. It is monstrous to imply that Russia’s right to delusions of empire trump Ukraine’s right to determine their country’s affairs, and even more monstrous to use the death of innocents as a shield for your craven delusions that everything would be fine if people just gave the naked aggressors everything they want.
Oh, you mean the war America escalated by taking sides in the second Sino-Japanese war and choking Japan to the point where they had to take a stance of aggression toward us to be able to get essential supplies by ship, and we decided to lie and paint Japan as an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy and nuke them twice even though they were ready to negotiate for peace both fucking times? That war?
Lie and paint japan as a an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy? If anything allied propaganda was below the mark regarding just how evil the Japanese were. Nanjing? Manilla? Shanghai? Unit 731?
The amount of brainwashing to tell the narrative of USA GOOD EVERYONE ELSE BAD has made speaking with you impossible. Break out of your fucking shitty, horrible programming and join the rest of the adults in a struggle to find peace in our time, or just be silent and let us do it.
So the solution is that the one side that already has a bunch of guns, gets to kill as many people on the other side, and we must not help the other side defend themselves?
Always give the aggressor everything they want and let them kill as many civilians as they need to.
Sure.
temporarily get some of what they want while things are worked out
Some of what they want = to own all of Ukraine, and for Ukrainians to not exist as a culture, let alone a nation.
Putin is not rational, this is an ego war. I take it you were never bullied in school. You might not know what it’s like when someone’s main goal in life is to make yours hell. You can just lay on the ground and play dead, that won’t stop them from kicking you. There’s no talking your way out of it unless you yourself are at least as strong as the bully. This is what Russia is. A schoolyard bully. Any type of negotiated peace short of total capitulation is going to be nothing more than a way to catch Ukraine with its’ pants down and kill more Ukrainians and grab more territory. The only way Russia will stop killing innocent people is if they either run out of resources, or Putin himself gets deposed.
Revisionist warmonger history. Russia was ready to peacefully take over Ukrane/parts of Ukrane until Ukrane went all aggressive murder all Russians on them. Sure, again, yes, 100%, Russia isn’t in the right here. Let’s not think I’m on Russia’s side here. I AM NOT. AT ALL. But the fact that you are going full murder boner is proof that you don’t care about people’s lives and you are willing to fucking lie about it.
Nothing like revisionist history that ignores the fact that Ukraine was the first actual aggressor and Russia just wanted them to give over their land. Not for Russia here, they’re 100% in the wrong, but land isn’t worth fucktons of human lives unless you’re a war-mongering hateful gun-toting conservative shit like you.
There is a “peace organization” here in Sweden, Svenska Freds, that are hard core pacifists. No matter what - pacifists. Their reasoning is like children. War is bad, everybody should be friends, the end. Reality should conform to this simple principle.
In the early days of the invasion, their loud public stance was that Sweden should not support Ukraine with military equipment. Ukraine was just as bad as Russia for defending themselves with weapons when they should use reason and diplomacy.
Then they got all weepy in the media when people called them useful idiots for Russia.
Absolutely hate those sorts of people. I’m a pacifist too, but not at the cost of my own life.
exert from Orwell on Pacifism and the war
There’s this codepink in u.s. thats like this organization too, except only think remarkable about them is when their website was flooded with signatures from trolls that said things like hating african americans, praising zelensky or putin AND hitler in same sentence and using putin’s credentials as if it were a regular signature.
Source?
This reminds me of that cunt Caitlin Johnstone saying the simple solution in Ukraine was detente. As if that is an option when you’re defending against the entire removal of your culture, history, heritage, and people.
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So if your country was being invaded you’d just lie down and take it? Perhaps even say thank you? You’re naive to think that talking will magically solve things when you’re against an enemy who clearly doesn’t have the same moral standards as you. They’re attempting to take what they want with force, they’ve already demonstrated that they don’t care for niceties like negotiation.
Imagine trying to talk it out with a mugger. They don’t care what you want to talk about. They want your money.
This makes you sound like those moronic Facebook posts that say things like “1 like = 1 prayer, ignore = you hate puppies”. It’s not a good look.
Would I rather be alive and in a position to negotiate my freedom than dead? Gee, what a hard que–oh wait.
Seriously, I don’t get this. I don’t understand how people have become so hateful and spiteful and blood-thirsty. It’s Fox News, isn’t it? Right-wing, jingoistic, hyper-patriotic, “I can’t understand the second amendment because I think only half of it applies” bullshit.
Go find a heart. Compassion. Love. Prayer does nothing. War kills. Love, compassion, understanding, patience, and peace is what moves the world.
I already gave you the mugger analogy, so one of three things is happening.
In any of these cases, it appears you are not debating in good faith. As such, I will no longer engage. Goodbye.
No, it’s you who do not understand because your brain is wired with violence and hatred and is unable to see past any of that to any possibility of peace. You are a relic of an ancient time of hatred and bullshit and you need to either rewire your brain and evolve, or stay silent and let people who want peace on this fucking planet be the adults we are.
Please go to Ukraine and test this routine on Russian soldiers, it will go really well for you, like that ad of Kendall Jenner solving racism with a Pepsi
Please learn current history and know Ukraine started this aggression. Moron.
Oh most enlightened one, ye who stands upon the highest of moral ground, please share with us your illuminated opinion of how the Ukraine should have responded? Or for that matter, any enemy who wishes to take your land and kill your people.
Clearly you are the most learned among us, and have solved the puzzle of how to overcome a violent enemy without resorting to violence, so please I beg of you oh sage one to teach us your great wisdom so that we may be as ethically correct as you.
EDIT
Aww I missed their rage response, I am guessing they had no better response than “let the violent party take whatever they want”? Yeah cause that’s a super great plan, and definitely doesn’t incentivize more violence.
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Good Lawd, check your blood pressure, you look worrying with all these caps and bolds
At least I have blood unlike all the dead innocents in Ukraine.
This guy would help the Russians if they invaded his country. Just vile.
I love how you turn pacifism around to “help the Russians” basically making me the villain while you advocate the killing of innocents and the destruction of cities. What a fucking hateful shit.
Here, let me bring some light into your understanding of the matter.
Imagine, and I want you to really visualize this, a large man has a visible gun on his belt. He demands that you strip nude and give him everything you have. There is no path you can run towards, he’s blocking the only exit and, again, has a gun. It just so happens that you also have a gun, and unlike his, yours is already drawn. What do you do?
Oh look, it’s hateful people imagining these fake no-win situations to justify their bloodlust. Grow up. Life is more complicated than your manipulative little fantasies.
How funny, it seems you’re dodging the very simple question. Almost like you’re devoid of intellectual honesty.
It’s not a “simple question”, it’s a manipulative question by a fucking violent sociopath describing an impossible, this-or-that situation that will never exist and I’m fucking calling you out on it.
Talk about having no intellectual honesty. Look, you’ve lost. Get over it. People like me – pacifists who want people to continue living, who want peace, no violence, no hatred – have won. You are a relic of a long-past age of hatred and bullshit. Evolve or be silent.
I advocate the defense of people and cities. You advocate their surrender. You would trade anything for peace, especially justice. You would rather have a negative peace than accept that the world is not as simple as you would like it to be, and there are some enemies who are simply not interested in negotiation. You are what we call a “useful idiot.”
Where is the justice for the dead? Where? Where the fuck is the justice for the innocents who have had their lives turned upside down? The ones who would still be alive if aggression had not been the solution?
You are a hateful, war-mongering, inhuman monster.
Those are some very good questions to ask the aggressor, Russia.
What justice is there in rolling over and saying, “no, we don’t have a right to self-determination in any way, please take anything you want, Russia!” If push came to shove you would be a collaborator, and aider and abetter of war crimes to save your own skin, and that cognitive dissonance makes you so uncomfortable that you put on this humanitarian act in order to maintain a moral high ground that does not exist. It is not virtuous to allow others to kill you, dominate you, and steal from you. It is monstrous to imply that Russia’s right to delusions of empire trump Ukraine’s right to determine their country’s affairs, and even more monstrous to use the death of innocents as a shield for your craven delusions that everything would be fine if people just gave the naked aggressors everything they want.
You really think that the world is so black and white that it’s either “kill all foreigners” or “bow down and join our beloved oppressors”?
Seriously, you shouldn’t be able to have an opinion. Go back to first grade and try learning how life works again.
WW2 happened because of retards like you.
Oh, you mean the war America escalated by taking sides in the second Sino-Japanese war and choking Japan to the point where they had to take a stance of aggression toward us to be able to get essential supplies by ship, and we decided to lie and paint Japan as an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy and nuke them twice even though they were ready to negotiate for peace both fucking times? That war?
Man what a dogshit take lol
Lie and paint japan as a an evil, aggressive, horrible enemy? If anything allied propaganda was below the mark regarding just how evil the Japanese were. Nanjing? Manilla? Shanghai? Unit 731?
What a fucking idiot!
The amount of brainwashing to tell the narrative of USA GOOD EVERYONE ELSE BAD has made speaking with you impossible. Break out of your fucking shitty, horrible programming and join the rest of the adults in a struggle to find peace in our time, or just be silent and let us do it.
y i k e s
So the solution is that the one side that already has a bunch of guns, gets to kill as many people on the other side, and we must not help the other side defend themselves?
Always give the aggressor everything they want and let them kill as many civilians as they need to.
Sure.
Some of what they want = to own all of Ukraine, and for Ukrainians to not exist as a culture, let alone a nation.
There’s no temporary about it. There’s no “some of what they want” about it. Negotiations have been tried time and time again. Ceasefires have been tried, but guess what, Russia just bombarded the civilian evacuation corridors when they were negotiated because the goal is to kill as many Ukrainians as possible.
Putin is not rational, this is an ego war. I take it you were never bullied in school. You might not know what it’s like when someone’s main goal in life is to make yours hell. You can just lay on the ground and play dead, that won’t stop them from kicking you. There’s no talking your way out of it unless you yourself are at least as strong as the bully. This is what Russia is. A schoolyard bully. Any type of negotiated peace short of total capitulation is going to be nothing more than a way to catch Ukraine with its’ pants down and kill more Ukrainians and grab more territory. The only way Russia will stop killing innocent people is if they either run out of resources, or Putin himself gets deposed.
Revisionist warmonger history. Russia was ready to peacefully take over Ukrane/parts of Ukrane until Ukrane went all aggressive murder all Russians on them. Sure, again, yes, 100%, Russia isn’t in the right here. Let’s not think I’m on Russia’s side here. I AM NOT. AT ALL. But the fact that you are going full murder boner is proof that you don’t care about people’s lives and you are willing to fucking lie about it.
Nothing quite like peacefully rolling tanks over the the border and killing the border guards, eh?
Nothing like revisionist history that ignores the fact that Ukraine was the first actual aggressor and Russia just wanted them to give over their land. Not for Russia here, they’re 100% in the wrong, but land isn’t worth fucktons of human lives unless you’re a war-mongering hateful gun-toting conservative shit like you.
I seem to remember a certain Jew that was a pacifist and advocated “turning the other cheek.” What a chump. /s
That same jew also violently threw merchants out of a temple. People are complicated.
Then faked a suicide by cop. Seriously, some people… I can’t even. /s
If you believe the Bible, then he was literally God. Zelensky isn’t that.
Have you seen his comedy show? He’s close enough… /s
He was a chump. He also flipped tables and threw a hissy fit in a bank/temple. Religious zealots shouldn’t be idolized.
I was trying to show this poster the hypocrisy of their comment. Jesus was a pacifist, therefore we should be too.