“job killer” automation in a reasonable society should mean less need for work and the same amount of resources available (if not more).
But we will never reach the point where we consider picnics, parties and painting more valuable than manipulative marketing, unnecessary polluting but profitable industry, and especially the all-important busywork. Do something profitable. Anything profitable. It doesn’t even matter if it’s a net negative to society, just do something.
Personal hobbies aren’t valuable to a society, they’re valuable to individuals. A guy playing video games 6 hours a day is probably okay with it, but it’s not contributing anything to society. There’s an argument to be made for people to be guaranteed time to themselves for their well being, but the idea that an economy can function off of picnics and parties is stupid. Automation is not going to make work obsolete, it’ll just shift the economy in a different direction. Just like what happened in industrial revolution 200 years ago.
Automation, AI, should be there to make people have more time doing things that they want to do. Means less “mindless” work, more time for art, reading, philosophy, education, spending time with family, etc. The “banal” work which can be automated should be automated so that more people have more time doing things above. I think the concept of universal income with free education, free health care (and maybe free housing) can work with the automation of work.
I understand what you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree, but you don’t seem to understand my point. The idea of automation that you have is based on the sci-fi idea that robots will do all of the work for us and we wouldn’t have to work anymore. It’s just a thought experiment. This idea isn’t reflected in the real world. We’ve already been through automation revolutions before, and every time, the economy just shifts to something else.
For example, for a very long time, being a lamplighter was a popular job. A bunch of people would get hired to go around the city and make sure that the street lamps are lit and well maintained. However, via the magic of automation, the light bulb was invented. Lamplighters were no longer necessary. There were a lot of lamplighters who were angry at this new technology for stealing their jobs and many protested against, some even tried to ban it, but ultimately the convenience of technology won as it always has and always will. But thanks to this new technology there were new jobs created… like electricians who would look after these lightbulbs for example.
My point is that the current automation wave is not going to kill the economy. It’ll just simply shift and make it more complex. There will still be jobs, but they will either be entirely new or they’ll be an existing job but simply updated to address society’s new needs. There will still be people who will work on creating automation technology, people who maintain it, people who will manufacture it, scientists who will try to research improve it, and so on. There will also be jobs that haven’t been created yet. Just 20 years ago, Youtube wasn’t even a thing but now being a youtuber is an actual profession held by tens of thousands of people. What’s to say we’re not going to see something similar in the next 20 years? It’s silly to think that we’re going to have an economy of picnics and parties any time soon when all we have to support this notion is pop culture speculation. The reality is that the wheels of the economy are just going to keep on turning like they always have.
A guy playing video games 6 hours a day is probably okay with it, but it’s not contributing anything to society.
Unlike profitable activities like manipulative marketing, unnecessary and polluting industry, and meaningless busywork?
Oh and yeah, mobile game developers. Whale-catching sure is a huge contributor to the rest of us, right? It’s so much better that they’re putting 8 hours a day into catching whales/addicts, than wasting time just chilling. Right?
My argument, since you need it clarified, unlike the majority; A lot of work doesn’t contribute to society. We might as well let them not work.
Saying “You need to work no matter what no matter how!” with our policy decisions and then hoping people will pick something important has so far led us into a civilization of extreme over-production of useless goods, successfully marketed to easily manipulated apes. A civilization of high pressure/intensity and low focus. The amount of stress experienced in video game development studios is a ridiculous example of this culture of ours.
Additionally, I have personally been told by an instructor at a metalworking/welding shop that it’s a huge part of my job to ensure I’m not replaceable, that is my priority. And automation/efficiency will only hurt me by making me and my time less valuable, and I should not pursue it. That kind of cynicism frankly makes me completely disinterested in continued participation.
My comment got downvoted to all hell by a bunch of Marxists who don’t understand how an economy works… which is not surprising in the least.
Look, my point is fairly straightforward. The idea that automation will do all the jobs and people will just sit around and do nothing all day is nothing more than a thought experiment. It’s a sci-fi idea. Not in the sense that people will have to work no matter what, but in the sense that’s not how automation or society works. We will never reach a point where we max out on what kind of work can be done and therefore we can automate all of it away. There will always be a new chapter that’s slightly more advanced than the last. I think we can agree that new technology should be used to benefit society as a whole, but we’re not going to have an economy based on hobbies any time soon. While automation gets rid of jobs, it also creates opportunities for new jobs to take place. We’ve already gone through automation revolutions before. We already know how the cycle goes. New technologies get invented, those technologies get put to use immediately, the people who’s jobs it is replacing will get angry and riot/protest, they will end up losing and having to either find a new trade or elevate their skills to remain in their trade. Basically, the economy becomes more complex. We may not have lamplighters, human computers, or ice cutters anymore, but thanks to the advances in technology we do have brand new jobs like software engineers, social media managers, or animators. When we look at the past, we can see constant change. There’s no reason to think that will stop with this current wave of automation. I think the economy will just shift to a new phase.
The new jobs you mentioned, social media managers and animators are unnecessary bullshit jobs. To the point they’re as good as hobbies. They’re trivial, and there’s no reason for those jobs to be compulsory or high stress at all. Our treatment of those kinds of jobs is ridiculous.
It’s time for UBI, a decent baseline, and then good compensation for actual important work.
People like yourself are responsible for the destruction of our life support system for trivial reasons.
The new jobs you mentioned, social media managers and animators are unnecessary bullshit jobs.
That’s not up to you to decide. Your personal tastes on what a “real job” has no bearing on whether or not it is a job. There’s clearly a demand for it, there are people who get paid for doing it, and there are people specializing in it. It’s an actual job.
They’re trivial
Social media managers are basically the new generation of PR. They advertise, spread awareness, and do community outreach. These core responsibilities have been a part of jobs for a very long time, it’s just this job is adapted to a new medium where people gather.
there’s no reason for those jobs to be compulsory or high stress at all. Our treatment of those kinds of jobs is ridiculous.
If you want to argue for better working conditions, protections, and rights then I would actually agree with you. But this brainless idea that jobs aren’t necessary or that there will be a point where they’re all going away is stupid. Societies can only function when their members contribute, and the current wave of automation is NOT going to put everybody out of work. Old jobs will automated away, new jobs will be created, and people will adapt to the advancing economy. This is the same it has been for the past automation waves. The idea that automation will do all the work and people have nothing to do anymore is literally nothing more than a pop culture sci-fi idea.
It’s time for UBI, a decent baseline, and then good compensation for actual important work.
I’m not opposed to a UBI or better compensation. But this boomer mentality of “real jobs” is as myopic as it is ignorant.
People like yourself are responsible for the destruction of our life support system for trivial reasons.
I’m not responsible for shit. I’m merely pointing out that you’re delusional fantasies about what automation and the economy don’t actually reflect reality.
“job killer” automation in a reasonable society should mean less need for work and the same amount of resources available (if not more).
But we will never reach the point where we consider picnics, parties and painting more valuable than manipulative marketing, unnecessary polluting but profitable industry, and especially the all-important busywork. Do something profitable. Anything profitable. It doesn’t even matter if it’s a net negative to society, just do something.
deleted by creator
Personal hobbies aren’t valuable to a society, they’re valuable to individuals. A guy playing video games 6 hours a day is probably okay with it, but it’s not contributing anything to society. There’s an argument to be made for people to be guaranteed time to themselves for their well being, but the idea that an economy can function off of picnics and parties is stupid. Automation is not going to make work obsolete, it’ll just shift the economy in a different direction. Just like what happened in industrial revolution 200 years ago.
Automation, AI, should be there to make people have more time doing things that they want to do. Means less “mindless” work, more time for art, reading, philosophy, education, spending time with family, etc. The “banal” work which can be automated should be automated so that more people have more time doing things above. I think the concept of universal income with free education, free health care (and maybe free housing) can work with the automation of work.
I understand what you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree, but you don’t seem to understand my point. The idea of automation that you have is based on the sci-fi idea that robots will do all of the work for us and we wouldn’t have to work anymore. It’s just a thought experiment. This idea isn’t reflected in the real world. We’ve already been through automation revolutions before, and every time, the economy just shifts to something else.
For example, for a very long time, being a lamplighter was a popular job. A bunch of people would get hired to go around the city and make sure that the street lamps are lit and well maintained. However, via the magic of automation, the light bulb was invented. Lamplighters were no longer necessary. There were a lot of lamplighters who were angry at this new technology for stealing their jobs and many protested against, some even tried to ban it, but ultimately the convenience of technology won as it always has and always will. But thanks to this new technology there were new jobs created… like electricians who would look after these lightbulbs for example.
My point is that the current automation wave is not going to kill the economy. It’ll just simply shift and make it more complex. There will still be jobs, but they will either be entirely new or they’ll be an existing job but simply updated to address society’s new needs. There will still be people who will work on creating automation technology, people who maintain it, people who will manufacture it, scientists who will try to research improve it, and so on. There will also be jobs that haven’t been created yet. Just 20 years ago, Youtube wasn’t even a thing but now being a youtuber is an actual profession held by tens of thousands of people. What’s to say we’re not going to see something similar in the next 20 years? It’s silly to think that we’re going to have an economy of picnics and parties any time soon when all we have to support this notion is pop culture speculation. The reality is that the wheels of the economy are just going to keep on turning like they always have.
Unlike profitable activities like manipulative marketing, unnecessary and polluting industry, and meaningless busywork?
Oh and yeah, mobile game developers. Whale-catching sure is a huge contributor to the rest of us, right? It’s so much better that they’re putting 8 hours a day into catching whales/addicts, than wasting time just chilling. Right?
My argument, since you need it clarified, unlike the majority; A lot of work doesn’t contribute to society. We might as well let them not work.
Saying “You need to work no matter what no matter how!” with our policy decisions and then hoping people will pick something important has so far led us into a civilization of extreme over-production of useless goods, successfully marketed to easily manipulated apes. A civilization of high pressure/intensity and low focus. The amount of stress experienced in video game development studios is a ridiculous example of this culture of ours.
Additionally, I have personally been told by an instructor at a metalworking/welding shop that it’s a huge part of my job to ensure I’m not replaceable, that is my priority. And automation/efficiency will only hurt me by making me and my time less valuable, and I should not pursue it. That kind of cynicism frankly makes me completely disinterested in continued participation.
My comment got downvoted to all hell by a bunch of Marxists who don’t understand how an economy works… which is not surprising in the least.
Look, my point is fairly straightforward. The idea that automation will do all the jobs and people will just sit around and do nothing all day is nothing more than a thought experiment. It’s a sci-fi idea. Not in the sense that people will have to work no matter what, but in the sense that’s not how automation or society works. We will never reach a point where we max out on what kind of work can be done and therefore we can automate all of it away. There will always be a new chapter that’s slightly more advanced than the last. I think we can agree that new technology should be used to benefit society as a whole, but we’re not going to have an economy based on hobbies any time soon. While automation gets rid of jobs, it also creates opportunities for new jobs to take place. We’ve already gone through automation revolutions before. We already know how the cycle goes. New technologies get invented, those technologies get put to use immediately, the people who’s jobs it is replacing will get angry and riot/protest, they will end up losing and having to either find a new trade or elevate their skills to remain in their trade. Basically, the economy becomes more complex. We may not have lamplighters, human computers, or ice cutters anymore, but thanks to the advances in technology we do have brand new jobs like software engineers, social media managers, or animators. When we look at the past, we can see constant change. There’s no reason to think that will stop with this current wave of automation. I think the economy will just shift to a new phase.
“…an economy based on hobbies…”
The new jobs you mentioned, social media managers and animators are unnecessary bullshit jobs. To the point they’re as good as hobbies. They’re trivial, and there’s no reason for those jobs to be compulsory or high stress at all. Our treatment of those kinds of jobs is ridiculous.
It’s time for UBI, a decent baseline, and then good compensation for actual important work.
People like yourself are responsible for the destruction of our life support system for trivial reasons.
That’s not up to you to decide. Your personal tastes on what a “real job” has no bearing on whether or not it is a job. There’s clearly a demand for it, there are people who get paid for doing it, and there are people specializing in it. It’s an actual job.
Social media managers are basically the new generation of PR. They advertise, spread awareness, and do community outreach. These core responsibilities have been a part of jobs for a very long time, it’s just this job is adapted to a new medium where people gather.
If you want to argue for better working conditions, protections, and rights then I would actually agree with you. But this brainless idea that jobs aren’t necessary or that there will be a point where they’re all going away is stupid. Societies can only function when their members contribute, and the current wave of automation is NOT going to put everybody out of work. Old jobs will automated away, new jobs will be created, and people will adapt to the advancing economy. This is the same it has been for the past automation waves. The idea that automation will do all the work and people have nothing to do anymore is literally nothing more than a pop culture sci-fi idea.
I’m not opposed to a UBI or better compensation. But this boomer mentality of “real jobs” is as myopic as it is ignorant.
I’m not responsible for shit. I’m merely pointing out that you’re delusional fantasies about what automation and the economy don’t actually reflect reality.
You choose to argue and act in favor of it.