The public is going to pay them regardless. The money for wages has to come from what customer’s spend. Being said, I agree with you wholeheartedly because tipping is a leverage point that enables a lot of racism, sexism and sexual harassment.
I think the lost nuance is that the previous guy means that with tips, the public pays for tips directly.
You’re technically correct, the public, by buying food and service, is paying the company, creating a pool of money from which the costs of business are to be paid, ideally including staff in full. And currently, wait staff has to be paid by the customer directly.
(This mostly holds for most of the US, in many places, it does work according to the more ideal model)
You wanna know what’s even more lost nuanced? the fact that a customer paying your salary via tip is after they’ve paid taxes. So let’s say they tip $1 - in my country that means they had to earn $2 before tax (assuming the customer is a billy big bollocks higher-rate tax payer).
But what about if the employer pays the server instead? well now we’re talking…when the emplopyer pays the server, it does so PRE-TAX. That is to say they can pay the server $1 and in order to do so they only had to earn $1. While if they banked that $1 as profit, they would pay tax on the $1 first and so see less of it (let’s call it $0.80). Mind you, that does mean that the service worker now needs to pay $1 on that income…but surely they would declare their tips anyway and pay the tax either way? right? riiiiight?
Long and the short of it is - the cheapest way for the server to get $1 is for the employer to pay it to them and pass the cost on to the customer. The cost to the employer is what the company would have received post-tax for that $1 which as we said earlier was $0.80. The server got the $1, the employer is not gaining or losing anything, and the customer is only paying $0.80 which means they only had to earn $1.60 instead of $2. Everyone wins, except the tax man doesn’t win quite as much as he was winning before. Cry me a river.
This, so much this. The average American dies on the hill of defending institutions that were literally created for no reason other than to fuck black people over and i’m so sick of it.
Unfortunately most wait staff do not want to work for just hourly, it’s been tried a lot and almost always places have major issues with getting waiters. The majority of them like the tipping system.
What’s your experience with this? Because I was a server that organized to eliminate the tipped minimum wage in Pennsylvania and we got plenty of support. Servers liked the fact that their income was predictable rather than being tied to business volume, managers liked that they could put one strong server or bartender on a medium-paced shift without that employee feeling like they were being punished by not being given the busiest (and therefore most profitable) shifts, everyone liked that their income was no longer tied to the whims of racist misogynists who had been drinking, there was no more pressure to work off the clock and for most servers it resulted in a raise and a lower overall workload.
Like it or not most tipped servers make more with tips. I don’t know why this is some odd thing. There are plenty of stories out there like the one I posted. Almost all tipped servers make more with tips.
In the EU we like to pay a living wage and tip. That way we know that no one is getting fucked (any more than usual) and the good service staff are getting rewarded for going above and beyond.
Crazy idea: pay them both more so the public doesn’t have to
The public is going to pay them regardless. The money for wages has to come from what customer’s spend. Being said, I agree with you wholeheartedly because tipping is a leverage point that enables a lot of racism, sexism and sexual harassment.
I think the lost nuance is that the previous guy means that with tips, the public pays for tips directly.
You’re technically correct, the public, by buying food and service, is paying the company, creating a pool of money from which the costs of business are to be paid, ideally including staff in full. And currently, wait staff has to be paid by the customer directly.
(This mostly holds for most of the US, in many places, it does work according to the more ideal model)
You wanna know what’s even more lost nuanced? the fact that a customer paying your salary via tip is after they’ve paid taxes. So let’s say they tip $1 - in my country that means they had to earn $2 before tax (assuming the customer is a billy big bollocks higher-rate tax payer).
But what about if the employer pays the server instead? well now we’re talking…when the emplopyer pays the server, it does so PRE-TAX. That is to say they can pay the server $1 and in order to do so they only had to earn $1. While if they banked that $1 as profit, they would pay tax on the $1 first and so see less of it (let’s call it $0.80). Mind you, that does mean that the service worker now needs to pay $1 on that income…but surely they would declare their tips anyway and pay the tax either way? right? riiiiight?
Long and the short of it is - the cheapest way for the server to get $1 is for the employer to pay it to them and pass the cost on to the customer. The cost to the employer is what the company would have received post-tax for that $1 which as we said earlier was $0.80. The server got the $1, the employer is not gaining or losing anything, and the customer is only paying $0.80 which means they only had to earn $1.60 instead of $2. Everyone wins, except the tax man doesn’t win quite as much as he was winning before. Cry me a river.
Tax evasion ftw
Because currentlty we pay the boss but they forget the part where that goes to their staff.
This should really be the norm.
Tip culture was developed so the restaurant owner didn’t have to pay (mostly black) waiters as much.
This, so much this. The average American dies on the hill of defending institutions that were literally created for no reason other than to fuck black people over and i’m so sick of it.
In some countries, it is!
Unfortunately most wait staff do not want to work for just hourly, it’s been tried a lot and almost always places have major issues with getting waiters. The majority of them like the tipping system.
Sounds to me like either ignorance or Stockholm syndrome.
Or Mario just lying 🤷
It’s absolutely lying, or at best guessing based on intuition. Eliminating the tipped minimum wage has strong support and demonstrable benefits.
https://onefairwage.site/
What’s your experience with this? Because I was a server that organized to eliminate the tipped minimum wage in Pennsylvania and we got plenty of support. Servers liked the fact that their income was predictable rather than being tied to business volume, managers liked that they could put one strong server or bartender on a medium-paced shift without that employee feeling like they were being punished by not being given the busiest (and therefore most profitable) shifts, everyone liked that their income was no longer tied to the whims of racist misogynists who had been drinking, there was no more pressure to work off the clock and for most servers it resulted in a raise and a lower overall workload.
https://www.businessinsider.com/danny-meyers-no-tip-policy-struggles-2017-10?_gl=1*1n4vs2l*_ga*SjlNVHNZR25mOVlXZ0x3NDhjT2VmM2MwRkZGQmNiaUppRktNTXl6YmREVnF6Uzd2b0tYQ3lNSmxoTEx6X05IbA…
Like it or not most tipped servers make more with tips. I don’t know why this is some odd thing. There are plenty of stories out there like the one I posted. Almost all tipped servers make more with tips.
In the EU we like to pay a living wage and tip. That way we know that no one is getting fucked (any more than usual) and the good service staff are getting rewarded for going above and beyond.