• JD Squared@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      You do realize there’s like 80,000 troops already there in europe? We have bases around the world. I’m not sure how these 3,000 national guard make a difference in your mind, but okay.

      • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is just the start. It’s the exact same way the “weapons assistance” went. First small, then billions of dollars worth of weapons being sent on the regular. It’s to get us used to the idea of even more troops being sent over. The fact that there’s 80k US troops on a foreign continent already doesn’t make it any better. If anything, it provides the context for why Russia is acting irrationally as it is being surrounded by an adversaries military

          • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            No offense but you sound like an idiot.

            I have just as much a right not to die fighting a foreign war as a Ukrainian has to die fighting for their country.

            Advocating for an increase in US military involvement in a foreign war sounds like someone hasn’t studied the great 20th century conflicts. If you’d like, I am a practicing historian and I can give you a reading list at your literacy level to give you some context for current world events.

            • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              So “I have the right to safety and the Ukranians have the right to die” sums up your position?

              If you want the conflict to end then why aren’t you advocating for Russia to cease their hostility and invasion of a sovereign nation? You seem to only be concerned with people opposing this Russian aggression and the war that they started.

              • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Ukraine is more than capable of defending itself. The US has no obligation whatsoever to that country. I would love if Russia just decided to stop, but I don’t think that’s a likely scenario. What does seem likely is if the us directly commits troops this will escalate the current situation dramatically. Any US involvement will trigger a declaration of war by Russia on the us. That will trigger article 5 of NATO brining all members of the alliance into war. Both side have nuclear weapons which will be used barring some sort of miracle rendering plutonium inert or something.

                I have just as much a right not to die over some territory on the other side of the world as the Ukrainians do defending their land. Didn’t know that was controversial. Hope you’re ready to die for Ukraine then

                • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  The US did make an agreement with Ukraine (the Budapest Agreement), Russia, and the UK that stated if they gave up their nuclear arsenal, we’d guarantee their security. Russia violated that agreement with their invasion and now we’re holding up our end of the bargain by offering security.

                  I highly doubt Russia would declare war on the US (and by extension NATO) as there is no way for them to win such a war when they’re already struggling to capture former USSR nations. You stating that nuclear war is inevitable is just sewing FUD and has little basis in reality. Putin might be unhinged but I doubt his military leaders are willing to make the entire planet unlivable just to further his agenda.

                  You wanting to sit on the sidelines is no guarantee of safety. Russia isn’t going to stop with Ukraine if we allow them to do as they please. They could just as easily attack the US next whether we get involved or not, so what will you say as Russian bombs fall on your home because we decided to let them expand their power unchecked?

                  • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    The Budapest memorandum of which you speak provides no obligation for the US to provide any security assurances, but provudes justification of action is taken. It is in no way legally binding the US to provide any sort of military obligation to Ukraine.

                    I highly doubt Russia would declare war on the US (and by extension NATO) as there is no way for them to win such a war when they’re already struggling to capture former USSR nations.

                    And your whole argument for increasing us military intervention is containing Russia yet you admit they could not in any way do that with their current military capacity. You even admit as much later in your comment contradicting yourself when you say

                    Russia isn’t going to stop with Ukraine if we allow them to do as they please. They could just as easily attack the US next whether we get involved or not, so what will you say as Russian bombs fall on your home because we decided to let them expand their power unchecked?

                    It’s incredibly nieve to think Russia wouldn’t declare war on the US if that committed military assets in direct active warfare against theirs.

                    You stating that nuclear war is inevitable is just sewing FUD and has little basis in reality. Putin might be unhinged but I doubt his military leaders are willing to make the entire planet unlivable just to further his agenda.

                    It is rooted in historical factuality. Russia has a nuclear arsenal that they are willing to use. Not against Ukraine because they’re not too stupid to provoke a nuclear exchange like that but a hot war with NATO would leave them little option but to use the nukes because as we’ve both acknowledged, they lack the capacity for a wide scale conventional war in Europe.

                    Even if it is FUD, do you really want to roll the dice on wether on not this could trigger a nuclear event? I don’t want to get anywhere close to that. While you seem to be yeehawing like Major Kong

                    So the only situation where a Russian bomb falls on my house is when it’s an ICBM launched because the US escalated themselves into full on war over Ukraine.

          • 133arc585@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            No offense but you sound blue-eyed and idealistic when history has shown this to be a typical outcome.

            • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Actually the typical outcome was letting hitler take the sudatenland while doing nothing.

              This is us stopping the typical outcome.

              • arcturus@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                that’s not what they mean

                they mean “America sending troops over to a foreign country to ‘save them’, and then sending more, and OOPS now we’ve started a war there and we’re already racking up those war crimes, and now the civilians there literally see us as goddamn evil and they’re not even wrong to think that way because it turns out that we were basically there mainly doing heinous shit so that the nation was in a position where they kinda had to let us have a share of their resources so rich old white men back home can add an extra 3 zeroes to their bank accounts” was something we literally did for the last 2 decades

                it is very much the one of the likely historical outcomes of “now the US gets militarily involved”

                • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  There are only 2 possibilities here:

                  1. Russia retains any level of reason and sanity and they back down immediately out of utter and complete pants-shitting terror. They’re getting worked by ukraine, the US is roughly 100 years further ahead in military technology than either Russia or Ukraine.

                  2. They’re insane, in which case nothing matters, gear up.

                  In either case, si vis pacem, Para bellum.

                  • arcturus@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    It feels like you’re treating the US as a force of nature here, rather than like a nation who is acting in this way because it’s convenient and in their interests

                    like the US could just like go “hey, please do peace talks, a lot of people are dying”, but they’re not doing that

                    and if the US really is that more powerful than Russia as you say, then they could rather easily start facilitating the above but once again they are not doing that

          • arcturus@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            but I mean, we did basically that already

            like relatively recently

            in the middle east

            • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              In the middle east, we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Here, Russia is the invader. The two situations aren’t comparable.

      • 133arc585@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        1 year ago

        To me, the issue is that it increased. Whether by a small amount or not is rather meaningless if your complaint is that troops are being committed at all. It could have increased by 30 troops and (although it wouldn’t have made news) it would bother me.

          • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            People are mean to me that I’m advocating for a senseless war with a nuclear element. Since obviously I can’t be wrong I’m taking my ball and hiding in my echo chamber

            • kmkz_ninja@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              1 year ago

              “I’m happy that Russia invaded Ukraine and I want nothing to do with it, I’m sure they’ll be fine”.

              • klieg2323@lemmy.piperservers.net
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                Not happy about Russia invading Ukraine but also not happy about the US potentially escalating to WW3. Ukraine is not worth a nuclear Holocaust

          • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            LMFAO Like this is a valid excuse. Only 2 people in this comments section is from Lemmy.ml. Everyone else is commenting here from different servers.

            What a truly stupid take.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              lemmy.ml is federated with lemmygrad.ml, and both are old instances (also run by the same people but that’s less relevant here). Point being is that all the people on tankie central are subscribed to [email protected] for their worldnews community and thus you get a certain voting pattern you don’t see in other worldnews communities even if you don’t see any lemmygrad.ml users commenting.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  For values of “public info” that involve running an instance and inspecting the database. Also lemmy.ml itself has quite a high proportion of tankies as it’s the instance that tankies tend to use to interact with instances defederating lemmygrad.ml.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Bullshit. They have very precise meaning: How many people up- and downvote things.