They have the right to seek whatever medical interventions they desire, they even have the right to stand 6 feet away from me if they want, they just don’t have the right to force anything on me I don’t want for myself. It’s called liberalism, something the left has forgotten about
And how many more committed suicide during lock downs? How many children’s learning was negatively affect by distance learning? How many developed eye-strain staring at screens all day? How many who were going to die anyways had to die alone cuz of social distancing? And you can look up for yourself the developmental issues masking had on children, who rely on facial recognition to learn how to function in the world and communicate with others.
And all those who died of covid were likely going to die of covid no matter what because they had comorbities, were elderly, or were obese and no amount of masking, vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.
Its clear you’ve spent the last 3 years with your head buried in the sand
And how many more committed suicide during lock downs?
Suicide rates go down during national emergencies. COVID-19 was no exception. Certain categories increased, but overall suicide rates went down due to COVID, not up.
How many children’s learning was negatively affect by distance learning? How many developed eye-strain staring at screens all day?
You’re right. Eye strain is definitely more important than millions of deaths.
How many who were going to die anyways had to die alone cuz of social distancing? And
This was the proper response by hospitals using their expertise, not something Biden demanded. Now you’re literally complaining about the effect of a global pandemic, not a country’s response to it.
And you can look up for yourself the developmental issues masking had on children, who rely on facial recognition to learn how to function in the world and communicate with others.
Sure, and also the children of mothers who caught COVID. When schools reopened, COVID spread like wildfire and caused just as many educational and developmental delays as entire classes were stuck at home sick. Consistently, your replies are acting like everything this pandemic did can be laid at the feet of the government that tried to respond to it, as if “no response” would mean nobody would have gotten sick, that the medical establishments (that supported government response) would have done things more to your liking.
I want to make crystal clear, COVID terrified the experts worse than it terrified the government. Those of us with advanced warning had stocked pantries before the lockdown was even someone’s bright idea.
And all those who died of covid were likely going to die of covid no matter what because they had comorbities, were elderly, or were obese and no amount of masking, vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.
This is filled with lies. You realize “obese” starts at a few pounds overweight, and obese people don’t deserve to die either.
And you say masks weren’t effective? Studies showed community mask usage caused a 70% drop in spread.. And that’s just paper/cloth masks, the weakest mask you can get. If we had enough N95’s for everyone and people didn’t throw fucking “let’s spread COVID parties” (yes, they actually fucking did), then the death toll would have been far lower. No, YOU wearing a mask isn’t going to stop YOU from getting COVID. Everyone around you wearing a mask is going to stop you from getting COVID. If you don’t think that’s a good reason to wear a mask, you’re a selfish prick.
vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.
Natural immunity didn’t happen; by the 6 month mark most COVID patients have little protection against reinfection. Terrifyingly, people are just not keeping immunity to COVID. SOMETHING stopped the spread of the virus. And it wasn’t something natural. Had no action been taken, COVID would have as many cases and casualties now as it did in 2020. Vaccines pushed the immunity rate to the magic 97% mark, where “herd immunity” starts to overcome the spread rate. Of course, now that people aren’t getting boosters, the spread rate is going up. Luckily the new mutations don’t spread as well as the original.
Its clear you’ve spent the last 3 years with your head buried in the sand
Would you have the balls to tell that to specialists who specialize in pandemic response? Prove you’re not a troll, and admit that if the supermajority of actual experts disagree with you, maybe you’re the one in the wrong.
I love how people keep falling back on “but this is shat the experts say” as if the “experts” don’t have monetary incentives to lie to the public. And when other experts like Dr. Malone came out and presented a different side of the story, they were dismissed entirely. Also, both of your sources are from the CDC, another one of those institutions that has monetary (as well as other) incentives to lie to the public. As I’ve said before, if you’re not willing to look past the most basic sources, sources like the CDC website, CNN, so on and so forth, don’t try to present these numbers to me as if they mean anything cuz there is KO way they aren’t doctored in way or another, and there are plenty of other publications out there that show completely different statistics. Natural immunity has been shown to be FAR better than VAX immunity, and aside from the I’m mill compromised, for whose these measures should definitely exist, the rest of us would have been better off simply catching it, beating it, and getting on with our lives. Viruses are going to spread no matter what, we don’t get to live in bubbles where nothing bad ever happens to us
Here’s your tinfoil hat. Cure for COVID, alien mind control, AND for intelligence.
other experts like Dr. Malone
A footnote reference in some early mRNA papers. And he wasn’t dismissed for his professional opinions, but for his embrace of full-on conspiracy theories. Then, he promoted hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin after we had conclusive information that it definitely was doing nothing but harm. He claimed without evidence (and known to be false) that the vaccines were causing AIDS!
Show me, show me everyone who got AIDS from the COVID vaccine, please do.
Also, both of your sources are from the CDC, another one of those institutions that has monetary (as well as other) incentives to lie to the public
But the guy who ran a large pharmaceutical company that was pitching a blend of famotidine and hydroxychloroquine as a cure for COVID is A-O-K in your book and should be trusted without question?
Understand. The people who are discredited over COVID are not discredited for holding controversial professional views, but for going batshit fucking insane across the board. And what few “controversial professional views” they held were so over the top we know have demonstration about their falsehood. There were 12.7 billion pfizer vaccines, but no increase in AIDS whatsoever.
don’t try to present these numbers to me as if they mean anything
I’m quickly learning that facts and truth don’t mean nearly as much as things that agree with your worldview. I see you going all alt-right in other threads. You’re just trolling, and looking like an ass. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?
Natural immunity has been shown to be FAR better than VAX immunity… for whose these measures should definitely exist
Since your measurement for a authoritative source is whether it agrees with you, IF you were wrong (you are), what kind of evidence would convince you?
I have numbers from studies ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9828372/) that put vaccine immunity about equal to natural immunity (depending on the specific vaccine), except that boosters are safer than catching COVID again and hybrid immunity (if you do catch COVID and are also vaccinated before or after) is itself much more effective than either alone.
More importantly (same ref), the vaccine is more effective than natural immunity for the severe cases of COVID that lead to hospitalization and death. A vaccinated populace will not crush the hospital and funerary systems like we experienced in 2020. An unvaccinated populace still can.
Viruses are going to spread no matter what, we don’t get to live in bubbles where nothing bad ever happens to us
Correct. Have you always been actively antivax? Got kids? Were they vaccined for smallpox? Measles? You know we basically eradicated most of those illnesses up until the antivax movement got reinvigorated by the COVID crazies?
COVID-19 had the 5th worst death toll of any pandemic in human history, and is in the top 10 of global population lost. And that was with modern medicine and (with some Republican political exceptions) reasonably aggressive global response.
COVID-19 was bad, worse than most people seem to remember. I’ve got a pandemic-trained MCE expert in my family. Everyone saw it coming when they saw the numbers, and it happened worse than expected. Hospitals overflowing capacity from just critical cases. Tent hospitals being built. They fucking activated the mass-grave contracts to store the bodies. For the first time in nearly a century. Bet you didn’t know that. OEMS doesn’t publish actions like that because they don’t want to cause further panic. It comes through a private email to paramedics (and, fwiw I thought this part silly, sent under a pseudonym that only people in the field would recognize)
For the record (not that I think you actually care about facts, but I’m putting this up there for neutral observers), the deadliness of a pandemic is not primarily driven by its death rate. Only an ignorant person would look to that first. A virus with a 0.1% death rate could end humankind. Many viruses with high death rates have less of an impact. Potentially more important factors are the spread rate (influenced by the incubation rate and contagiousness window), and immunity rates (both inherent immunity and acquired immunity). That COVID-19 was a COVID family of illness (cold family, no known cures, treatments, or immunization paths) made it worse.
Just look at Florida’s and Texas’ response compared to New York and California. Those “Republican exceptions” had better results from not locking down. And yeah, there’s an argument to made for population density especially in places like NYC, but let’s also not forget that in NYC, the governor was sticking covid patients in elderly homes and upping the death rate. If the masks and vaxxes make you city rats feel safe then more power to you, but there was KO reason that stuff needed to be part of a global response
Just look at Florida’s and Texas’ response compared to New York and California
Texas had the 3rd highest mortality rate, and Florida the 18th. Expected death rates should be relative to population density. Florida is 13th and Texas is 13th. Both states are dramatically over-represented per capita in US COVID deaths. Your numbers defend my side.
NY has the 7th highest population density and is past the middle of the pack in terms of deaths. California has the 11th highest population density and was middle of the pack.
The highest death states (other than the one you tried to use for your argument) were Oklahoma and Alabama. Both fairly low in population density. Care to read off the other high-death-toll states? West Virginia, Mississippi, Wyoming, Tennessee, Nevada, Arizona…
In fact, I’ll take a step further. In swing states (like Florida), the death rate of Republicans was comfortably higher than of Democrats. It led to conspiracy theories that we were secretly creating and spreading the disease, not the fact that they had literal fucking parties to spread it on purpose.
If the masks and vaxxes make you city rats feel safe then more power to you, but there was KO reason that stuff needed to be part of a global response
The reason we needed it for a global response is that if you didn’t do it, it spread to everyone and killed them. Vaccination and prevention only works when universally embraced and/or mandated. Both parties were in full agreement about that until the moment Trump started telling people to drink lysol and bleach instead (and there was a huge uptick in that!). Did you drink lysol at his suggestion?
Some of what you said was partially correct, but most of it was not.
the death rate of Republicans was comfortably higher than of Democrats
This is just part of the narrative that gets pushed around the pandemic, I doubt its actually true. Even if it is, what your comparing here is those extremely stupid few who did take it too far, as another user has mentioned, throwing “spread covid” parties and things like that, which have no real bearing in terms of how the virus normally spreads. Things like that wouldn’t even be an issue if the pandemic hadn’t been politicized in the first place.
As far as Trump telling people to drink bleach, that was actually a misunderstanding between Trump and some doctor he was talking to. I believe it was Dr. McCullough that told that story on the rogan podcast. More the product of Trump’s inability to communicate effectively. And for your claim that people took that advice, I again doubt how true that is, but even so you’d be talking about a small minority of republicans who were stupid enough to try it who are not representative of conservatives as a whole. In case you were unaware, there are extremely stupid people all over the political compass
What about the rights of the immunocompromised, the sick, and the children and elderly?
They have the right to seek whatever medical interventions they desire, they even have the right to stand 6 feet away from me if they want, they just don’t have the right to force anything on me I don’t want for myself. It’s called liberalism, something the left has forgotten about
Do they have a right to live in a society that takes pandemics seriously so they don’t end up socially murdered?
One again, less than 2% death rate. We didn’t take it seriously, we overblew it and caused mass panic for no good reason
Yeah, it is only a couple million deaths and several million cases of long covid. /s
And how many more committed suicide during lock downs? How many children’s learning was negatively affect by distance learning? How many developed eye-strain staring at screens all day? How many who were going to die anyways had to die alone cuz of social distancing? And you can look up for yourself the developmental issues masking had on children, who rely on facial recognition to learn how to function in the world and communicate with others.
And all those who died of covid were likely going to die of covid no matter what because they had comorbities, were elderly, or were obese and no amount of masking, vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.
Its clear you’ve spent the last 3 years with your head buried in the sand
Your answer to that question is no, apparently
Funny how you don’t have a real rebuttal so you’ve resorted to childish drawings of pig shit
Honestly, as the idiot who did give you a real rebuttal, I think he was the smart one to send you the pig shit picture.
Your argument literally included “having to wear a mask that gets my face a little sweaty” as fascism, and “eye strain” as a response to mass deaths.
funny how you think your comments warrant a more sophisticated rebuttal
Suicide rates go down during national emergencies. COVID-19 was no exception. Certain categories increased, but overall suicide rates went down due to COVID, not up.
You’re right. Eye strain is definitely more important than millions of deaths.
This was the proper response by hospitals using their expertise, not something Biden demanded. Now you’re literally complaining about the effect of a global pandemic, not a country’s response to it.
Sure, and also the children of mothers who caught COVID. When schools reopened, COVID spread like wildfire and caused just as many educational and developmental delays as entire classes were stuck at home sick. Consistently, your replies are acting like everything this pandemic did can be laid at the feet of the government that tried to respond to it, as if “no response” would mean nobody would have gotten sick, that the medical establishments (that supported government response) would have done things more to your liking.
I want to make crystal clear, COVID terrified the experts worse than it terrified the government. Those of us with advanced warning had stocked pantries before the lockdown was even someone’s bright idea.
This is filled with lies. You realize “obese” starts at a few pounds overweight, and obese people don’t deserve to die either.
And you say masks weren’t effective? Studies showed community mask usage caused a 70% drop in spread.. And that’s just paper/cloth masks, the weakest mask you can get. If we had enough N95’s for everyone and people didn’t throw fucking “let’s spread COVID parties” (yes, they actually fucking did), then the death toll would have been far lower. No, YOU wearing a mask isn’t going to stop YOU from getting COVID. Everyone around you wearing a mask is going to stop you from getting COVID. If you don’t think that’s a good reason to wear a mask, you’re a selfish prick.
Natural immunity didn’t happen; by the 6 month mark most COVID patients have little protection against reinfection. Terrifyingly, people are just not keeping immunity to COVID. SOMETHING stopped the spread of the virus. And it wasn’t something natural. Had no action been taken, COVID would have as many cases and casualties now as it did in 2020. Vaccines pushed the immunity rate to the magic 97% mark, where “herd immunity” starts to overcome the spread rate. Of course, now that people aren’t getting boosters, the spread rate is going up. Luckily the new mutations don’t spread as well as the original.
Would you have the balls to tell that to specialists who specialize in pandemic response? Prove you’re not a troll, and admit that if the supermajority of actual experts disagree with you, maybe you’re the one in the wrong.
I love how people keep falling back on “but this is shat the experts say” as if the “experts” don’t have monetary incentives to lie to the public. And when other experts like Dr. Malone came out and presented a different side of the story, they were dismissed entirely. Also, both of your sources are from the CDC, another one of those institutions that has monetary (as well as other) incentives to lie to the public. As I’ve said before, if you’re not willing to look past the most basic sources, sources like the CDC website, CNN, so on and so forth, don’t try to present these numbers to me as if they mean anything cuz there is KO way they aren’t doctored in way or another, and there are plenty of other publications out there that show completely different statistics. Natural immunity has been shown to be FAR better than VAX immunity, and aside from the I’m mill compromised, for whose these measures should definitely exist, the rest of us would have been better off simply catching it, beating it, and getting on with our lives. Viruses are going to spread no matter what, we don’t get to live in bubbles where nothing bad ever happens to us
Here’s your tinfoil hat. Cure for COVID, alien mind control, AND for intelligence.
A footnote reference in some early mRNA papers. And he wasn’t dismissed for his professional opinions, but for his embrace of full-on conspiracy theories. Then, he promoted hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin after we had conclusive information that it definitely was doing nothing but harm. He claimed without evidence (and known to be false) that the vaccines were causing AIDS!
Show me, show me everyone who got AIDS from the COVID vaccine, please do.
But the guy who ran a large pharmaceutical company that was pitching a blend of famotidine and hydroxychloroquine as a cure for COVID is A-O-K in your book and should be trusted without question?
Understand. The people who are discredited over COVID are not discredited for holding controversial professional views, but for going batshit fucking insane across the board. And what few “controversial professional views” they held were so over the top we know have demonstration about their falsehood. There were 12.7 billion pfizer vaccines, but no increase in AIDS whatsoever.
I’m quickly learning that facts and truth don’t mean nearly as much as things that agree with your worldview. I see you going all alt-right in other threads. You’re just trolling, and looking like an ass. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?
Since your measurement for a authoritative source is whether it agrees with you, IF you were wrong (you are), what kind of evidence would convince you?
I have numbers from studies ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9828372/) that put vaccine immunity about equal to natural immunity (depending on the specific vaccine), except that boosters are safer than catching COVID again and hybrid immunity (if you do catch COVID and are also vaccinated before or after) is itself much more effective than either alone.
More importantly (same ref), the vaccine is more effective than natural immunity for the severe cases of COVID that lead to hospitalization and death. A vaccinated populace will not crush the hospital and funerary systems like we experienced in 2020. An unvaccinated populace still can.
Correct. Have you always been actively antivax? Got kids? Were they vaccined for smallpox? Measles? You know we basically eradicated most of those illnesses up until the antivax movement got reinvigorated by the COVID crazies?
COVID-19 had the 5th worst death toll of any pandemic in human history, and is in the top 10 of global population lost. And that was with modern medicine and (with some Republican political exceptions) reasonably aggressive global response.
COVID-19 was bad, worse than most people seem to remember. I’ve got a pandemic-trained MCE expert in my family. Everyone saw it coming when they saw the numbers, and it happened worse than expected. Hospitals overflowing capacity from just critical cases. Tent hospitals being built. They fucking activated the mass-grave contracts to store the bodies. For the first time in nearly a century. Bet you didn’t know that. OEMS doesn’t publish actions like that because they don’t want to cause further panic. It comes through a private email to paramedics (and, fwiw I thought this part silly, sent under a pseudonym that only people in the field would recognize)
For the record (not that I think you actually care about facts, but I’m putting this up there for neutral observers), the deadliness of a pandemic is not primarily driven by its death rate. Only an ignorant person would look to that first. A virus with a 0.1% death rate could end humankind. Many viruses with high death rates have less of an impact. Potentially more important factors are the spread rate (influenced by the incubation rate and contagiousness window), and immunity rates (both inherent immunity and acquired immunity). That COVID-19 was a COVID family of illness (cold family, no known cures, treatments, or immunization paths) made it worse.
Just look at Florida’s and Texas’ response compared to New York and California. Those “Republican exceptions” had better results from not locking down. And yeah, there’s an argument to made for population density especially in places like NYC, but let’s also not forget that in NYC, the governor was sticking covid patients in elderly homes and upping the death rate. If the masks and vaxxes make you city rats feel safe then more power to you, but there was KO reason that stuff needed to be part of a global response
Texas had the 3rd highest mortality rate, and Florida the 18th. Expected death rates should be relative to population density. Florida is 13th and Texas is 13th. Both states are dramatically over-represented per capita in US COVID deaths. Your numbers defend my side.
NY has the 7th highest population density and is past the middle of the pack in terms of deaths. California has the 11th highest population density and was middle of the pack.
The highest death states (other than the one you tried to use for your argument) were Oklahoma and Alabama. Both fairly low in population density. Care to read off the other high-death-toll states? West Virginia, Mississippi, Wyoming, Tennessee, Nevada, Arizona…
In fact, I’ll take a step further. In swing states (like Florida), the death rate of Republicans was comfortably higher than of Democrats. It led to conspiracy theories that we were secretly creating and spreading the disease, not the fact that they had literal fucking parties to spread it on purpose.
The reason we needed it for a global response is that if you didn’t do it, it spread to everyone and killed them. Vaccination and prevention only works when universally embraced and/or mandated. Both parties were in full agreement about that until the moment Trump started telling people to drink lysol and bleach instead (and there was a huge uptick in that!). Did you drink lysol at his suggestion?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/#:~:text=There have been 101%2C159 deaths,number of COVID-19 cases.
Some of what you said was partially correct, but most of it was not.
This is just part of the narrative that gets pushed around the pandemic, I doubt its actually true. Even if it is, what your comparing here is those extremely stupid few who did take it too far, as another user has mentioned, throwing “spread covid” parties and things like that, which have no real bearing in terms of how the virus normally spreads. Things like that wouldn’t even be an issue if the pandemic hadn’t been politicized in the first place.
As far as Trump telling people to drink bleach, that was actually a misunderstanding between Trump and some doctor he was talking to. I believe it was Dr. McCullough that told that story on the rogan podcast. More the product of Trump’s inability to communicate effectively. And for your claim that people took that advice, I again doubt how true that is, but even so you’d be talking about a small minority of republicans who were stupid enough to try it who are not representative of conservatives as a whole. In case you were unaware, there are extremely stupid people all over the political compass