I don’t know if I’d say it’s unethical on the server’s part.
Honestly I don’t think it’s inherently unethical to engage in tip culture as a customer either. That would basically mean never eating out, for Americans.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this. They just put up a job posting for a server for $x/hour and the server accepted the position knowing that was the wage.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
Mental gymnastics. They literally set the wage requiring the “whole thing” between the server and customer
They were only able to set that wage because of the server and the customer.
I’m not at all arguing the business owner is ethical. They are a piece of shit. The entire intention of my argument against tipping is to force the business owner to raise wages. Force. Not ask nicely and hope lol.
And how were they able to make the argument ‘they get tips anyway’? My understanding is it arose during the great depression, and then they kept it going afterwards.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this.
Yeah they just make more money because the server and the employer made an agreement whereby the server takes less from the employer and expects more from the customer in return.
Totally not involved at all… just how they want you to think of the situation.
Business owners will do whatever make more money. If a server was willing to volunteer and work for free, or worse pay the business owner $5/h to work there, the business owner would happily take that deal too.
I’ve been very clear the entire time that the business owner is not acting ethically. But they will continue to act like that unless we force them to change.
So it’s up to the server to look out for their interests and demand a better wage. Its not “keep tipping servers more and more because its the path of least resistance to prosperity for servers”.
Lots of jobs don’t pay enough in this country, but for some reason servers believe it entitles them to a donation. This is the status quo servers fought for because it made them more money than most of the rest of the staff until now.
Exactly. Tipping is fundamentally unethical for all parties involved.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s unethical on the server’s part.
Honestly I don’t think it’s inherently unethical to engage in tip culture as a customer either. That would basically mean never eating out, for Americans.
It’s definitely unethical as a business owner.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this. They just put up a job posting for a server for $x/hour and the server accepted the position knowing that was the wage.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
Mental gymnastics. They literally set the wage requiring the “whole thing” between the server and customer
They were only able to set that wage because of the server and the customer.
I’m not at all arguing the business owner is ethical. They are a piece of shit. The entire intention of my argument against tipping is to force the business owner to raise wages. Force. Not ask nicely and hope lol.
They were only able to set the wage so low because they have no conscience that tells them people should be able to afford both food and shelter.
I don’t disagree. But relying on them magically getting such a conscience is naive. I say we force them rather than hoping they do the right thing.
Business owners lobbied to get waiters to be paid below minimum wage. Using the argument that they got tips anyway.
They are the whole reason the tipping culture exists in the US.
And how were they able to make the argument ‘they get tips anyway’? My understanding is it arose during the great depression, and then they kept it going afterwards.
So you agree, the unethical one is the business owner.
They are acting unethically, yes. But so is anyone else in support of a tip based system.
The owners do it by choice.
The servers do it out of necessity.
Yeah they just make more money because the server and the employer made an agreement whereby the server takes less from the employer and expects more from the customer in return.
Totally not involved at all… just how they want you to think of the situation.
Business owners will do whatever make more money. If a server was willing to volunteer and work for free, or worse pay the business owner $5/h to work there, the business owner would happily take that deal too.
I’ve been very clear the entire time that the business owner is not acting ethically. But they will continue to act like that unless we force them to change.
So it’s up to the server to look out for their interests and demand a better wage. Its not “keep tipping servers more and more because its the path of least resistance to prosperity for servers”.
Lots of jobs don’t pay enough in this country, but for some reason servers believe it entitles them to a donation. This is the status quo servers fought for because it made them more money than most of the rest of the staff until now.