• bloodfart@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    6 months ago

    Do not fall for the idea that changing to some other method of voting will fix anything.

    Plenty of European nations have all manner of goofy voting systems and parliamentary governments and they’re all still getting fascist parties and coalitions.

    Even if we thanos-snapped ourselves into star or ranked choice or some other cheese eating surrender monkey voting style we’d still actually have to be not okay with our government sending 2000lb guided bombs to be dropped on hospitals.

    That starts with not voting for Biden because a vote can only ever be seen as a show of support. There is no way to mark the little bubble that says “I’m only doing this to keep trump out of office” or the one labeled “wish it was anyone else”.

    You can only show support with a vote and I urge you not to show support for Biden.

    You should feel proud of your third party vote in 2016, I sure do. You can say a lot of bad things about trump, but he never laughed about having a nations leader sodomized to death with a knife on daytime tv.

    • Shaggy1050@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      I agree that there’s likely no ‘perfect’ system of government. Mostly because power corrupts most. But clearly the two party system is extremely dangerous so I still want a change to another method. Yes, ranked choice voting isn’t perfect but not trying to change/improve is giving up.

      I do want to ask, it seems like you are fine with another Trump term. Do you not think fascism growth would be greater under his presidency? Do you think he won’t support the Israel government or worse, provide even more to them?

      • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        Our system of government forms a feedback loop with our social system. We can certainly change how we vote but without changing both the government and social system, modifications to our election process only change the interlink between the two. It’s clear from other extant nations dealing with fascist movements that a different interlink doesn’t fundamentally alter how both the government and social systems respond to material conditions.

        It’s not giving up to recognize that a new transmission won’t fix a blown engine and stripped differential.

        We might need a new transmission too, but it ain’t gettin us to pismo beach unless the rest is straightened out.

        I’m not “fine” with another trump term, and I’m not “fine” with Bidens term or another one.

        We are getting fascism. We have, right this very moment, got fascism.

        We cannot fight fascism with gentler fascism or inclusive fascism or fascism with a welfare state, we can fight it with socialism, anarchism or communism.

        To step away from the polemic for a little bit it’s interesting that you said we shouldn’t vote third party but instead should try to change the voting system. Here I am just asking people to do the easiest thing ever, mark a different box on a piece of paper, and the response is “no, before you do that simple, easy to accomplish thing you have to fundamentally alter how we choose officials!”

        I don’t bring it up to make fun of you, because several other people have said that to me, but to ask what motivates that? I mean, do you think the only acceptable outcome for a political party is victory?

        • Shaggy1050@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          First I want to say I appreciate your time and your responses. I appreciate having an actual conversation on the matter because I truly am interested in your thoughts and what you think the best approach may be.

          Trust me, I don’t just want to change how we vote, I think that many changes need to be made to our government. My biggest question is how do you think we can make that happen? My opinion (just an opinion) is that the people have a much better chance with making changes through local elections and that the democratic party is more likely (at least at the moment) to put us in the right direction. Yeah, it’s not going to fast or easy.

          I consider myself independent. I always tried to vote for the best candidate no matter the party. Then after 2016, I realized that overall the GOP was toxic for the country. I already didn’t like the Democratic party leadership but figured that while they suck, it’s much more dangerous for Trump/the GOP to be in charge again.

          Again, I appreciate your time and if you can, please share what you think may be the best option forward. I know you mentioned voting 3rd party but what else do you think people should do?

    • harmsy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      6 months ago

      The time to vote against Biden was back in the primaries. We can try again during the next primary, but if we fuck around during the general, we’re going to find out how much worse a second Trump term will be.

      • bloodfart@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        6 months ago

        Your vote for Biden is only a vote for Biden. It will never be a vote against trump. It will only ever signify support for Biden assistance and denial of a genocide.

        The democrats don’t have a crystal ball, they can’t tell that you wish they would run someone else or that you feel forced to vote for their candidate despite his monstrous platform. They will only see support. They will only see what they can get away with.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        6 months ago

        The time to vote against Biden was back in the primaries.

        Yeah. I remember centrists screaming that uncommitted votes in the primary were votes for Trump. The only thing that pleases a centrist is silence from critics.