Grace Augustine talks about her interviews with people who’ve chosen to leave their jobs over climate change concerns on The Conversation Weekly podcast.
Curious to hear your take on how automation is recklessly wasteful (and what types of automation), if you feel like sharing it. I thought automation was all about efficiency, but maybe it’s a narrower kind of efficiency than I was thinking… Like optimizing for “make number go up more fast” efficiency, at the expense of all other kinds.
For a little background, I worked in the field for about 5-6 years, half the time as a contractor/helper, and the other half as an apprentice (which I never completed). The company built automation lines which primarily did metal welding. High voltage spot welding, Automated MIG welding and Laser welding/braising.
As for wastefulness, I don’t even know where to start and I am sure I will miss a bunch of things. In no particular order of importance:
Automation requires A LOT of materials. Pipes, cables, trays, robots, supports, safety, devices, fasteners and the list goes on. Keep in mind that All these materials need to be extracted, transported, refined and remade into what we need to build an automation line.
Automation is Heavily dependent on fossil fuels. We need machines to extract raw materials. We need machines to transport raw materials. We need machines and heat to refine raw materials. We need machines and heat to create a final product. We need to transport those final products and then we can finally work with that final product to install into an automation line. Some materials that we work with such as cables, hosing and tubing will create some sort of waste during the installation process. Maybe not as much as the other steps but it all adds up in the end.
I worked in electrical and all of our cables would have some sort of plastic/rubber/silicone sheathing. I honestly don’t know how we can expect to keep up with the growing electrical demand AND cut down on crude oil extraction. We need insulators to safely use electricity and plastics do that job very well.
I don’t know how resource extensive it is to make a microprocessor, but I imagine it still takes a lot of machinery and heat to create them. Microprocessors are in a lot of devices used in automation.
Wear and tear on mechanical parts. Robots are great for doing repetitive tasks. Robots and anything that moves (conveyors or clamps, for example) will involve moving parts. Anything with moving parts will wear down eventually. Those parts are generally trashed and replaced with a functioning part.
Electronic Devices. Computers, PLC (Programmable Logic Controllers), Sensors, power supplies, transformers, lights, and HMI (Human-Machine Interface) are some of the devices used in automation. Lots of plastics, metals and microprocessors. Since these are electronic devices, they need to be shipped in plastic to ensure the devices are free from moisture or shock damage. The plastic wrapping and plastic shock foam pads that have no purpose after the device has been removed from the packaging get thrown out.
Shipping. Everything coming in or leaving has to be shipped. For smaller items, they may be bundled up on a transport skid which may mean it is wrapped in layers and layers of shipping plastic wrap in order to secure the load. Larger items may require plastic or metal tie-down straps. All of which are disposed of after use. Robots, tooling, fencing, piping, cables, power disconnects and so on are VERY heavy. All this weight requires so much fuel to transport from place to place before reaching the final installation site.
Reusing vs. replacing. Depending on the request, we may reuse old robots or tools but in many cases, A LOT of old, still usable material just gets chucked into the trash. Companies care less about waste and more about downtime. It’s far quicker to tear out the old, bring in new cables/piping/tray, slap it in and get that power running as soon as possible.
Weight. Things are getting heavier. Heavier stuff means bigger robots. Bigger robots require more power. You can probably look back at some previous points to understand why the extra weight is not good.
Energy consumption. As we push further into automation, we require more electrical power. Before I left my company, the power demand was increasing at a mind blowing rate. Towards the end of my time there, I spent months with a couple other people prepping high voltage power main disconnects. When I first started there, there was only one person prepping disconnects when the demand required it.
Oils and fumes. Moving parts generally require lubrication. Greases and oils are generally not so nice to the environment considering the actions required to handle, dispose of, or clean up oil. Lots of fumes are created from welding metal together and it’s pretty nasty stuff. My patience with that company disappeared after they started welding aluminum without filtering the aluminum welding fumes.
Management are prideful idiots. The dingleberries that run the place have no idea what they are doing and have no idea what it takes to build an automation line. Some of their mistakes cost millions of dollars in wasted materials and all that shit just gets chucked. It’s fucking mind blowing.
I’m sure there’s more but my brains done with this for now. Automation is super cool and fun to watch when all is done and it’s running. It can definitely push out higher production numbers compared to humans. It is definitely not as green or sustainable as any tech company would want you to believe. I believe, from my perspective and experiences in that field, it’s an unsustainable disaster. If it seems like a green alternative, it’s because we aren’t talking about the resource requirements to build, maintain and upgrade automation systems and only focusing on the production output.
Personally, I believe our green alternatives shouldn’t depend on green technology but rather draw heavy inspiration from nature itself. The hard part about that is imagining a life that isn’t intertwined with capitalism, money and hierarchy. Once we shrug off those evils, we can start to observe and listen to nature again.
You’re not wrong with your points, but these are mainly to do with an industrial society in general, not automation specifically. Most of those points are also true for the good ol’ steam-powered factories and pure mechanical processes. The main difference was that more human labor was exploited instead of automated processes today. In the end, industrial systems are always linear. Things go in on one end, such as fuel, raw material, parts, and goods come out on the other end, together with a bunch of waste that’s always somebody else’s problem to deal with. Many push for circular solutions, and they do exist, but basically if it costs any money or effort it’s not implemented.
Capitalism replaced old feudalism and in turn capitalism will be replaced. However you do need to replace it with a system that can feed several billion people. Although these systems are not just invented. They grow out of things people found out that kinda work.
Tools will wear out too and need replacement. Boots, gloves and many articles of clothing will wear out.
If you replace a machine that does the job of 100 people and replace it with 100 people, those people will need to commute to work, they will need to eat, and this will put carbon in the air and/or use electricity. Thermodynamics is a bitch, the energy needed by a group of people to lift something will not be any different from the amount of energy needed for a robot to lift something. Growing food to get that energy and then the person shitting out the waste requiring water treatment plants to process it may not be the most energy efficient way to move heavy objects.
And I’ve worked on machines that can do calculations to optimize where materials are cut to minimize wastage. A human with a tape measure and a calculator won’t be able to achieve this level of material usage optimization. Automation can actually reduce material waste.
A lot of the problems you mention would still be problems even if we went full Butlerian Jihad and eliminated all robots. Bad management? Yeah it’s not going to go away when a manger has more employees to manage. Wasteful use of plastic in shipping things? A person can wrap stuff with plastic just as a machine does.
If you don’t like automation that’s fine. But there’s no environmental reasons for being against automation. In fact we need to produce a lot of wind turbines and solar panels as fast as possible. Like a huge number of them. The workforce isn’t big enough to produce them all.
Curious to hear your take on how automation is recklessly wasteful (and what types of automation), if you feel like sharing it. I thought automation was all about efficiency, but maybe it’s a narrower kind of efficiency than I was thinking… Like optimizing for “make number go up more fast” efficiency, at the expense of all other kinds.
For a little background, I worked in the field for about 5-6 years, half the time as a contractor/helper, and the other half as an apprentice (which I never completed). The company built automation lines which primarily did metal welding. High voltage spot welding, Automated MIG welding and Laser welding/braising.
As for wastefulness, I don’t even know where to start and I am sure I will miss a bunch of things. In no particular order of importance:
Automation requires A LOT of materials. Pipes, cables, trays, robots, supports, safety, devices, fasteners and the list goes on. Keep in mind that All these materials need to be extracted, transported, refined and remade into what we need to build an automation line.
Automation is Heavily dependent on fossil fuels. We need machines to extract raw materials. We need machines to transport raw materials. We need machines and heat to refine raw materials. We need machines and heat to create a final product. We need to transport those final products and then we can finally work with that final product to install into an automation line. Some materials that we work with such as cables, hosing and tubing will create some sort of waste during the installation process. Maybe not as much as the other steps but it all adds up in the end.
I worked in electrical and all of our cables would have some sort of plastic/rubber/silicone sheathing. I honestly don’t know how we can expect to keep up with the growing electrical demand AND cut down on crude oil extraction. We need insulators to safely use electricity and plastics do that job very well.
I don’t know how resource extensive it is to make a microprocessor, but I imagine it still takes a lot of machinery and heat to create them. Microprocessors are in a lot of devices used in automation.
Wear and tear on mechanical parts. Robots are great for doing repetitive tasks. Robots and anything that moves (conveyors or clamps, for example) will involve moving parts. Anything with moving parts will wear down eventually. Those parts are generally trashed and replaced with a functioning part.
Electronic Devices. Computers, PLC (Programmable Logic Controllers), Sensors, power supplies, transformers, lights, and HMI (Human-Machine Interface) are some of the devices used in automation. Lots of plastics, metals and microprocessors. Since these are electronic devices, they need to be shipped in plastic to ensure the devices are free from moisture or shock damage. The plastic wrapping and plastic shock foam pads that have no purpose after the device has been removed from the packaging get thrown out.
Shipping. Everything coming in or leaving has to be shipped. For smaller items, they may be bundled up on a transport skid which may mean it is wrapped in layers and layers of shipping plastic wrap in order to secure the load. Larger items may require plastic or metal tie-down straps. All of which are disposed of after use. Robots, tooling, fencing, piping, cables, power disconnects and so on are VERY heavy. All this weight requires so much fuel to transport from place to place before reaching the final installation site.
Reusing vs. replacing. Depending on the request, we may reuse old robots or tools but in many cases, A LOT of old, still usable material just gets chucked into the trash. Companies care less about waste and more about downtime. It’s far quicker to tear out the old, bring in new cables/piping/tray, slap it in and get that power running as soon as possible.
Weight. Things are getting heavier. Heavier stuff means bigger robots. Bigger robots require more power. You can probably look back at some previous points to understand why the extra weight is not good.
Energy consumption. As we push further into automation, we require more electrical power. Before I left my company, the power demand was increasing at a mind blowing rate. Towards the end of my time there, I spent months with a couple other people prepping high voltage power main disconnects. When I first started there, there was only one person prepping disconnects when the demand required it.
Oils and fumes. Moving parts generally require lubrication. Greases and oils are generally not so nice to the environment considering the actions required to handle, dispose of, or clean up oil. Lots of fumes are created from welding metal together and it’s pretty nasty stuff. My patience with that company disappeared after they started welding aluminum without filtering the aluminum welding fumes.
Management are prideful idiots. The dingleberries that run the place have no idea what they are doing and have no idea what it takes to build an automation line. Some of their mistakes cost millions of dollars in wasted materials and all that shit just gets chucked. It’s fucking mind blowing.
I’m sure there’s more but my brains done with this for now. Automation is super cool and fun to watch when all is done and it’s running. It can definitely push out higher production numbers compared to humans. It is definitely not as green or sustainable as any tech company would want you to believe. I believe, from my perspective and experiences in that field, it’s an unsustainable disaster. If it seems like a green alternative, it’s because we aren’t talking about the resource requirements to build, maintain and upgrade automation systems and only focusing on the production output.
Personally, I believe our green alternatives shouldn’t depend on green technology but rather draw heavy inspiration from nature itself. The hard part about that is imagining a life that isn’t intertwined with capitalism, money and hierarchy. Once we shrug off those evils, we can start to observe and listen to nature again.
You’re not wrong with your points, but these are mainly to do with an industrial society in general, not automation specifically. Most of those points are also true for the good ol’ steam-powered factories and pure mechanical processes. The main difference was that more human labor was exploited instead of automated processes today. In the end, industrial systems are always linear. Things go in on one end, such as fuel, raw material, parts, and goods come out on the other end, together with a bunch of waste that’s always somebody else’s problem to deal with. Many push for circular solutions, and they do exist, but basically if it costs any money or effort it’s not implemented.
Capitalism replaced old feudalism and in turn capitalism will be replaced. However you do need to replace it with a system that can feed several billion people. Although these systems are not just invented. They grow out of things people found out that kinda work.
Tools will wear out too and need replacement. Boots, gloves and many articles of clothing will wear out.
If you replace a machine that does the job of 100 people and replace it with 100 people, those people will need to commute to work, they will need to eat, and this will put carbon in the air and/or use electricity. Thermodynamics is a bitch, the energy needed by a group of people to lift something will not be any different from the amount of energy needed for a robot to lift something. Growing food to get that energy and then the person shitting out the waste requiring water treatment plants to process it may not be the most energy efficient way to move heavy objects.
And I’ve worked on machines that can do calculations to optimize where materials are cut to minimize wastage. A human with a tape measure and a calculator won’t be able to achieve this level of material usage optimization. Automation can actually reduce material waste.
A lot of the problems you mention would still be problems even if we went full Butlerian Jihad and eliminated all robots. Bad management? Yeah it’s not going to go away when a manger has more employees to manage. Wasteful use of plastic in shipping things? A person can wrap stuff with plastic just as a machine does.
If you don’t like automation that’s fine. But there’s no environmental reasons for being against automation. In fact we need to produce a lot of wind turbines and solar panels as fast as possible. Like a huge number of them. The workforce isn’t big enough to produce them all.
Optimizing make number go up is all industry. All forms of commercialism.