I just want to say a few words because I got banned from my local NextDoor app and Reddit 2x because I get so sick of seeing so many pro-ICE class traitors cheering on the abuse thats occuring in our neighborhoods and communities in the Unites States! These same people claim to be patriots as you realize they are the same people that would have snitched on Ann Frank ffs!
The rich people that own these platforms are creating their own fake realities to feel better about themselves using banning features and bot accounts but eventually it will catch up with them. It used to be normal and standard to not be okay with dictatorships and Nazi behavior. Millennials learned about WW2 in schools ffs! We KNOW Hitler is bad!
Its so insanely UN-AMERICAN to cheer on ICE as they LARP around as fake police officers, that are somehow allowed to murder and abduct innocent civilians?! Legally VIA the Federal Government? I stand by every single thing I said in my post and these people have had EVERY SINGLE opportunity to wake up. They choose to either be ignorant or just a crappy human being. Part of living in a society means community and contributing to your neighborhood somehow but instead they choose to side with the budget clown mafia that is our government and the disgusting oligarchs that are sucking all of the US citizens dry, INCLUDING THOSE CHEERING THEM ON! Its absurd and I am so sick of being censored, constantly. I am thankful for the Fediverse… But I wish more people knew about it! Its still very niche… When this time in history is over can we as a society prioritize educating the public on privacy, mesh networks and other peer to peer networking options? This can never happen again.
P.S. I am not angry that I was banned specifically. Its because these same people complained about FrEe SpeEcH and its so evident they only ever used it to be a disgusting racist, sexist ect… hateful human being. Not because they believe in freedom.
Seems like you fell for the obvious bait & made their point when I figured they were playing devil’s advocate. “Free speech” only when it doesn’t offend you isn’t free speech. This is just plain hypocrisy.
Please look at the next reply in the chain. I made it very clear that the speech I’m railing against is defense of fascism. We can politely disagree on almost everything, but absolutely not fascism.
Nope. I wanted to tackle that “devil’s advocate” crap head on.
The phrase devil’s advocate comes from a historic official Catholic Church position where someone argues against the canonization of a saint in order to uncover any flaws in arguments for canonization. In modern parlance, it is used to describe people who argue for a position they don’t believe in to strengthen the argument.
As of writing this comment, the person I replied to made no implication that they were trying to be a “devil’s advocate”, which means that they just advocated for “the devil” for free.
We are not just having a friendly, weightless debate amongst equals where the two positions are represented by equal powers, i.e. in the context where devil’s advocates are necessary. ICE is waging a war against the working poor of the United States with the full backing and military might of the
government, and this person was (possibly inadvertently, but I really don’t care anymore) doing propaganda on their behalf. In situations like these, in asymmetric warfare, “devil’s advocates” go by a different name: traitors! And ICE is worse than the devil, so we certainly do not need ICE advocates!
Free speech is free speech. The only justifiable limitation is harm, not mere offense. While fascism is harmful, their speech merely offends. Only they, their violence, threats, & appeal to force can be justifiably suppressed, not their merely offensive opinions.
If anything, your tact is counterproductive, because it robs everyone the open discourse necessary to observe the reasons against fascism & their effective articulation to discredit fascist rhetoric. People need practice to hone their abilities to deliberate & articulate themselves effectively. Relying on dogma, taboo, & censorship leads to brittle thinkers & incompetent defenders of righteous causes.
Moreover, their remark of “disagreeing about ICE” (as outlandish as it seems to me) doesn’t automatically make them a fascist. You’re making somewhat of a leap here. Do you know the US is full of douches?
Impoliteness is ineffective & unskilled at discrediting bad positions. Having reason on your side & articulating it effectively makes a more resounding (& satisfying) defeat.
Then you boldly played yourself & deluded yourself into “victory”.
Seems you’re raising an etymological fallacy. Unless you’re psychic, you don’t know what the commenter truly believes & no one needs to declare/imply/admit they’re playing devil’s advocate to do so.[1]
Exposing someone’s hypocrisy over the principle of free speech by eliciting a response just as the commenter had fits the definition exactly.
That’s up to you. We’re on Lemmy: nothing you do here does anything to oppose fascism. The fight against fascism is out there where the fascists are. I’m not even sure the commenter is advocating fascism: I think they were just luring you into a trap to expose your lack of principle regarding free speech. All we’re doing here is exchanging insignificant words.
On the contrary, exclusion instead of correction is a mistake that got us here. Before we got complacent, we dealt with idiots by legitimately discrediting their rhetoric in open discourse & advocating better ideas. Before deplatforming began, the problem was more manageable. Relying on censorship to knock them off platforms fanned the flames: their persecution complex feels justified with “liberal social media” against them, and by forming separate platforms where their rhetoric goes unchallenged, they can radicalize themselves & organize to defeat the liberal system “persecuting” them. Civic disengagement, apathy in our political system didn’t help either.
The same complacency that got us here won’t get us out. Censorship is incompetent advocacy & we’re paying the price.
Especially on here: prefatory explanations for any move Lemmy could maliciously interpret in the worst way possible (which is all of them) gets exhausting & inspires defiance. ↩︎
Strongly disagree. Their speech moves other people to commit acts of violence, appeals to force, etc.
The reasons against tolerating fascism are extremely simple and don’t need much debate: it is as simple as that fascists aim to dominate and eliminate basically anyone except for themselves.
Like we can debate the parameters of fascism, the history of fascism, hell even the justifications used for fascism throughout history, but we first have to agree that fascism is bad. And unfortunately, I live in a country where people don’t even agree on this anymore.
Yes it is lol, I’ve been here my whole godforsaken life and I will probably die in this shithole country 🙃
Yes, and when I’m doing an ordinary debate, I try to be polite and open-minded. But there are a very small minority of topics that I’m just not willing to debate, like whether or not you can have my wallet (you can’t, not debating it), whether or not I deserve to be shot (I don’t, not debating it), or whether or not we should tolerate fascism (we shouldn’t, not debating it), for the simple reason that “losing” that “debate” results in death and destruction and misery.
…yeah I know with pretty good probability what that commenter truly believes, especially based on his follow-up responses. I already knew the moment I commented. I’ve met a thousand dumb fucks like him with identical opinions, and I’m sure I’m gonna meet a thousand more 🙃.
Let me make explicit what I have only been implying: I clocked that dude as a piece of shit immediately and responded in kind. Now I know I’m not perfect at reading people, but I gotta work with what I got, and at least in this case, I nailed it. And I clocked you as a decent person, and I’m responding in kind.
Respectfully, hard disagree. Fascists used real concerns about censorship as cudgels, as they use every rhetorical tool, to barge into spaces where otherwise, their ideas would be absolutely obliterated.
I.e., no matter how good at debating you get, you cannot win a debate with a fascist. By putting fascist ideas on the same pedestal as your own ideas, you have already lost, because the fascist will simply use that platform as a cudgel to bully you and advocate for your oppression.
I need to stress that I really do want speech to be as free as possible, but that allowing fascists the same free speech rights as everyone else will result in them taking over the space, e.g. 4chan.
Its not propaganda its just support for the policy supported by a majority of the american people. And your right ice is backed by the entire unites states military they hold an absolute monopoly on violence. Be greatful they have not decided to use it and go full Tiananmen square in ur ass. Cos they sure as shit could and with the way ur acting why wouldnt people laugh just like u did when Charlie kirk died. If u celebrate the death of others for their political options why should others have empathy for you? Pick a side empathy for your enemies and u shall receive empathy if you die or laugh at ur enemies deaths and don’t be surprised when people celebrate yours.
Bro conservatives have been celebrating the deaths of leftists, liberals, and even moderate conservatives for fucking decades, fuck off with this empathy bullshit, we’re WAY past the point of them having empathy for people.
And also what the fuck you mean “empathy for other people”? Bro I know you’re just using “empathy” as a cudgel to bully me into accepting my oppression, like we both know you don’t care:
Glad ur smart enough to figure out that I’m just using the word “empathy” to manipulate you. Maybe you will think about that the next time u use that word for the exact same purpose. Ur so close to realising that I’m just using your own arguments against you yet so far from realising that every argument u present you are arguing against yourself.
Yeah you’re treating anti-fascism and fascism as equivalent when it’s more like eating a sandwich vs eating diarrhea. I clocked you immediately buddy, and I like how you think you’re clever for that take. It just felt good to scream at you 😆😆😆
Offt that’s some copium. Your right u defiantly didn’t just waist precious minutes of your life pointing out the excruciating details or your hypocracy for the purposed of my entertainment.
Well I’m glad we both got something from this
🖕😆🖕
U just gotta get the last word don’t ya. Perhaps being a little less hateful and a bit more empathetic and caring for your fellow humans could help you a rest deal. I hope you find Jesus in your life.
The fuck are you on about? “Free speech” is a protection against government overreach- period. Doesn’t have a damn thing to do with regular citizens “canceling” each other
Mate I think u might have bit too much critical thinking skills for lemmy. You might get banned for not siding with the lemmy hive mind if u keep acting like this.