Veganism is a good cause and we can all learn a thing or two about sustainability from them. Stop acting like they’re out here to take your oh-so-precious meat away from you. Eat a vegetable or two so you can get that turd out of your ass.
Veganism isn’t about sustainability. Plant-based diets are less harmful to the environment but eating a plant-based diet because you care about climate change has nothing to do with veganism.
Veganism is a moral philosophy on the treatment of animals. Animals are individuals. Individuals must only be treated as ends, never as means. The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. It harms us when we take pleasure in cruelty and violence. The animals we create are owed the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.
I wholly agree that beyond just sustainability, the reduction of suffering for animals is in the heart of veganism.
That being said, it’s not the most effective argument to sway us meat eaters. When people think of animal suffering, it brings shame and guilt and makes some people defensive. This is why some people hate vegans, because it’s a reflection of their own inadequacies. They revel at finding proselytizing vegans to pull apart because it lets them tell the world ‘See? This is what all vegans are like. I’m not like that and therefore I am a good person.’
Self-interest is the easiest way to goad people into thinking about veganism without hurting any egos. If you rephrase veganism as a matter of self-preservation and not a moral issue, people are more open to that.
It’s much easier to make the world eat 10% less meat than make 10% of everyone a vegan. Veganism for all isn’t the answer yet, because human incentives don’t work that way. Instead of promoting veganism, it’s much more achievable to ask people to do things like meatless Mondays.
I don’t think you can speak for all vegans. It’s a diet, not a religion.
From the Wikipedia page: “People who follow a vegan diet for the benefits to the environment, their health or for religion are regularly also described as vegans.”
I can’t speak for all feminists either but I can tell you what feminism IS. There is not a prescriptive definition of every word, but there are for some words. The prescriptive definition exists, and you probably saw it on that exact page, but you chose to quote something else, in an argument on the internet that you don’t even care about. It’s amazing how non vegans always want to argue about stuff they just looked up this moment for the purpose of arguing about something they neither know or care about.
Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named or described by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like veganism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing.
Those are all carnists under the definition. Vegetarians have no problems with visiting horrible cruelty and violence on animals for their secretions and body parts. They just choose not to eat the actual flesh of animals, which, big deal from the animal’s point of view.
The four Ns of carnism: that it is “natural”, “normal”, “necessary”, and “nice”. It’s part of why you’ve never really thought about your carnism or the cruelty and violence you commit against vulnerable individuals every day. Why would you? It’s normal to do that!
It’s literally one defense mechanism after another with you. Everyone can see it. I wonder why you even do this to yourself when clearly you are leaning on coping mechanisms to do it.
You’ve already stepped into the “I’m vegan btw” by saying something like omni lol
I eat meat and you’re being a twat.
Veganism is a good cause and we can all learn a thing or two about sustainability from them. Stop acting like they’re out here to take your oh-so-precious meat away from you. Eat a vegetable or two so you can get that turd out of your ass.
Veganism isn’t about sustainability. Plant-based diets are less harmful to the environment but eating a plant-based diet because you care about climate change has nothing to do with veganism.
Veganism is a moral philosophy on the treatment of animals. Animals are individuals. Individuals must only be treated as ends, never as means. The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. It harms us when we take pleasure in cruelty and violence. The animals we create are owed the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.
I wholly agree that beyond just sustainability, the reduction of suffering for animals is in the heart of veganism.
That being said, it’s not the most effective argument to sway us meat eaters. When people think of animal suffering, it brings shame and guilt and makes some people defensive. This is why some people hate vegans, because it’s a reflection of their own inadequacies. They revel at finding proselytizing vegans to pull apart because it lets them tell the world ‘See? This is what all vegans are like. I’m not like that and therefore I am a good person.’
Self-interest is the easiest way to goad people into thinking about veganism without hurting any egos. If you rephrase veganism as a matter of self-preservation and not a moral issue, people are more open to that.
It’s much easier to make the world eat 10% less meat than make 10% of everyone a vegan. Veganism for all isn’t the answer yet, because human incentives don’t work that way. Instead of promoting veganism, it’s much more achievable to ask people to do things like meatless Mondays.
It goes “never as a mere means.”
People always forget the “mere” part.
Found the vegan.
I don’t think you can speak for all vegans. It’s a diet, not a religion.
From the Wikipedia page: “People who follow a vegan diet for the benefits to the environment, their health or for religion are regularly also described as vegans.”
I can’t speak for all feminists either but I can tell you what feminism IS. There is not a prescriptive definition of every word, but there are for some words. The prescriptive definition exists, and you probably saw it on that exact page, but you chose to quote something else, in an argument on the internet that you don’t even care about. It’s amazing how non vegans always want to argue about stuff they just looked up this moment for the purpose of arguing about something they neither know or care about.
Read the whole article.
it’s neither a diet nor a religion. it’s a philosophy and way of living
Diet:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diet
Veganism is, by definition, a diet. It just happens to (often) be based on a philosophy by the same name.
You wouldn’t say “pragmatism isn’t an approach to problem solving! It’s a philosophy!” It’s both.
Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named or described by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like veganism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing.
–
marriam webster
“Dictionaries don’t give the correct definition of words; how I feel a word should exclusively be used is what ultimately matters” -commie
this is a strawman. prima facie bad faith
I quoted the same lexicographer you did.
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i kind of doubt it.
I remember you! you’re the one recommending people download the fucking burger king app lol
I don’t know what this refers to, but it APPEARS to be an epic burn.
that’s a mischaracterization of the conversation
lol mhmm.
How the hell did you get all of that from my comment? Projecting much?
I‘m an omni myself. I prefer it over „non-vegan“.
the academic term that contrasts with “vegan” is “carnist”
I tried to go vegan secretly once, it was a disaster. This country fucking hates vegans and health.
Just lets skip omnivores, flexitarians and vegetarians.
Those are all carnists under the definition. Vegetarians have no problems with visiting horrible cruelty and violence on animals for their secretions and body parts. They just choose not to eat the actual flesh of animals, which, big deal from the animal’s point of view.
cArNiStS !!1!
It just sounds weird. I guess it’s not wrong, but referring to the “normal” with a term that sounds like you’re referring to an outlier is weird.
this is the logic of people saying “cis is a slur”
No, it’s not. Quit projecting.
absolutely it is the exact same mental process
yes it is
just because you’re in the biggest “-ism” doesn’t mean you’re not in one.
Yes, but it doesn’t make it any less unusual to refer to it that way.
it may feel unusual to you
Yes? What’s your point?
holy shit, I thought you were following this. nevermind.
Would you prefer bloodmouth? Or maybe animal abuser?
Well that would be really in the “I’m a vegan btw”. Way more so!
So we shouldn’t call people heterosexual or cisgender?
It having a name is not treating it as an outlier. It’s just using the name. Omnivorous: you eat any kind of food.
I also thought calling people cishet was weird. Though I guess I got used to seeing it since I visit places where the terminology is common.
Most people who aren’t on social media much probably barely know the term.
The four Ns of carnism: that it is “natural”, “normal”, “necessary”, and “nice”. It’s part of why you’ve never really thought about your carnism or the cruelty and violence you commit against vulnerable individuals every day. Why would you? It’s normal to do that!
carnism only has one n.
Nah bro.
Avoidance and denial are essential to bulwarking the carnist view of themselves and avoiding the pain of cognitive dissonance.
You sound so smart!
you sound triggered
I am in awe of your self righteousness.
It’s literally one defense mechanism after another with you. Everyone can see it. I wonder why you even do this to yourself when clearly you are leaning on coping mechanisms to do it.
Accurate username.