;tldr Beginning to use a new OS, even using a distro as friendly as Mint, is harder than the overall community says it is. The second there is a problem expect hours of consuming, likely outdated, information. That said I’m happy I switched.
I’m not a programmer. If you are someone who is unfamiliar with GNU/Linux you probably aren’t either. Good news: a week after you start using Linux you’ll feel like one! Here are some critical things I eventually learned while installing Ubuntu/Mint:
You should expect to use the terminal . Period. Something about your particular hardware or software setup may require special tweaks or install that requires typing. Anyone who even hints this isn’t the case is at best deluded. I know this is a deal-breaker for many people but I’d rather not waste your time.
Locations and commands are case-sensitive . -h means help -H Human-readable (or is it the other way around? More typing yay!). It’s in /etc/ X 11, not /etc/x11 (something almost impossible to see the difference of on a blurry 1080i resolution not being properly displayed).
While the basic user storage locations mimic what you are used to, the underlying system organization is completely impossible to navigate. Pertinent files can be scattered over several locations for whatever reason so don’t even bother trying to figure out a pattern and just follow guides. That said,
Guides helping you to navigate this jumbled mess are possibly outdated so check their dates or you may end up following directions and quite possibly break your installation when you add/remove/alter a file that used to be important but has been deprecated or relocated and now redundant. Speaking of which,
It is possible/probable your distro is effectively a skin of another older distro , so you should search the underlying distro directions too in case there aren’t any for the ‘skin’ you’re using.
All said and done, I am very happy to say I now have my Mint OS on a portable USB keychain that I can use on any PC (assuming TPM permission). The actual OS is pleasantly unobtrusive, nimble, and supports 90% of what I want to do with it. Critical failings seem to be completely relegated to proprietary software (for me, 1080i support was abandoned by all the graphics card developers years ago and I’m unable to either find older working drivers like I can in Win10, or find/figure out the tweaking needed to force the issue). Check all your mission critical programs to see if they are Linux compatible , or ‘simply’ learn to use the open-source competitor if they aren’t.
People who have these complaints often have forgotten how hard it was to learn Windows and how hard it was to find info before XP lasted for 14 years. These are all the same problems you would have if you had never seen Windows before. For instance I don’t think you would be complaining about case sensitivity if you had not used a system that wasn’t first. Also, Windows itself is a “skin” on older OSs; Windows retained DOS compatibility for years and many of it’s quirks, like the case sensitive thing, are a result of that. Not to mention that the WinNT kernel was built on from the Win32 kernel (itself an upgrade of the Win16 kernel) and IBM’s OS/2. There are literally screens in Windows 11 that are the same screen they were in Windows 95, the format dialogue for instance.
In my experience having to use the terminal also applies to windows.
If you haven’t had to at least use sfc /scannow to fix the OS having randomly microsofted to shit I assume you’re not regularly using windows…
Also everything being where you least expect it. Did the program install to Program Files\program, Program Files\publisher\program, Program Files (x86)\program, Program Files (x86)\publisher\program, Program Files\Common Files\program, Program Files\Common Files\publisher\program, Program Files (x86)\Common Files\program, Program Files (x86)\Common Files\publisher\program, %appdata%\program, %appdata%\publisher\program, %localappdata%\program, %licalappdata%\publisher\program, C:\program…?
Are the files somewhere in My Documents? In the program’s installation folder? Somewhere in %appdata%? On the desktop? Kidnapped by OneDrive because you forgot to opt out of the “backup” that deletes your system folders and moves them to the cloud, only to immediately complain that you’re using too much space and have to pay a ransom to access them? Windows search certainly won’t help you find them, though it might give you similarly named bing results…And let’s not forget about system configuration… is the setting you’re looking for on the new settings app, the control panel, the registry, group policies, some weird powershell incantation, the task manager’s startup section (!?), the task scheduler, the services manager, the device manager, the computer manager, the disk manager, the old msconfig tool, some random contextual menu, some random management console add-on, some old forgotten executable or cpl in System32 (did you know the old windows 3.11 dialer is still there)…?
For every one of those options you’re almost guaranteed to find at least one or two settings that can only be configured through that particular tool, and I’m sure I’m forgetting some…expect hours of consuming, likely outdated, information
Wdym? I just google the problem and copy paste the first terminal command I see in the top search result. /s
expect to use the terminal
This is true, however I’ve never had to use the terminal on all my Mint installations on many different laptops old and new, even one with a 15 year old nvidia video card. If there’s one distro I would recommend to someone who never wants to see a terminal, it would be Mint.
the underlying system organization is completely impossible to navigate. Pertinent files can be scattered over several locations for whatever reason so don’t even bother trying to figure out a pattern
Good thing you don’t have to figure it out, because its standardized.
Standardized is a big word.
Think of e.g. /tmp vs /run, /mnt vs /media, /root vs /home/root, and so on.
This is a better summary than many that are out there even still…
Is that file a bin or opt? oh, it’s an opt linked in bin. No no, it’s a usr/bin my bad.
Like I understand that people smarter than I felt this is the way, but you have to admit this is a lot if a newbie needs to know this for some reason. Thankfully, I don’t need to.
you can always use
which cmdto find where a program is located. if you’re looking for where to find your systems JDK for example you could runwhich java. you can userealpathon the output as well if you’re concerned with it being a symlink.it’s definitely a learning curve, but remember that the curve is there because now you’re being exposed to a lot more fundamental concepts that windows obfuscates. it may seem more confusing now, but stick with it and it won’t take long for you to start wondering why windows would ever do things as it does.
Its good to have a shallow understanding, even if you don’t need to know the details. That way if you find yourself looking for a config file in
/bin/, then you might get the idea that you are making a mistake.Also, the search function in every GUI file browser on linux will be streets ahead of the one built into the windows file explorer, so you don’t need to fear using it. It won’t return ads, or web results, or take 6 years to search through the folder that you are currently in.
I’ll probably put that image on my desktop for permanent reference just in case because it is good to understand how engines work even if you never plan on even changing the oil yourself.
Which newbies need to know that? You already said you don’t, why do the other newbies need it?
I’ve been using Linux on the desktop for 20 years, and managed a whole farm of them professionally on several occasions. While I know the difference between /bin, /usr/bin and /sbin and why it’s like that, it’s hardly something I really need to think about unless I’m building a software package, something a newbie user would never do.
I didn’t say they did. In fact, I say not to.
Guides helping you to navigate this jumbled mess are possibly outdated
That’s true, but have you ever tried to read Microsoft’s documentation?
You mean the shitty online forums where approved posters fail to understand the question and provide useless advice?
Or the posts with frustrated users just screaming into the void?
Even the official documentation is often outdated.
I’ve seen them reference UI elements that were removed over a year ago on freshly published articles.
But also I love the M$ forums and the constant stream of unrelated replies with begging for people to cave and flag their posts as a solution.
The forums are the tech support equivalent of two girls 1 cup.
That sounds exactly like the GH community forum! Oh yeah…
Which one of the 3 to 5 settings menus are they asking me to change this setting again? All I want is for my desktop to recognize the TV as speakers through the HDMI cable ffs!!! (Actual thing I had to deal with windows a few weeks ago that ended up with us not having actual karaoke for an end of the year lab party ;-;)
I would say: What documentation?
For most users whose main computing habits are browsing the internet, word processing (desktop or Google Docs), or email, you’ll rarely have to touch a terminal.
I set up my mom’s laptop with clamtk (set to auto update definitions), auto backup, and auto update and she generally uses it the same as Windows.
I set up my mom’s laptop with clamtk (set to auto update definitions), auto backup, and auto update
OOC (I have no idea what that is) how long did it take you to first learn how to do that, and more importantly, how long would it have taken your mother to learn it had you not?
I basically moved to Linux Mint from Windows myself back in March so this is everything I’ve learned since then. Auto update and auto backup (using Timeshift and Update Manager) are pretty straight forward since they’re all options in the GUI. Clamtk comes from me using Clamav on Windows for the longest time and most of the packages were found right in the GUI for the Software Manager.
My experience migrating to Linux started off rough. Fedora wasn’t even on my top 3 distro to try (Bazzite, Mint, Ubuntu), but when you’re running Frankenstein hardware with Nvidia graphics, your distro is gonna be the first one that actually boots from a USB drive.
Very happy with it. It’s actually easier to find solutions to most of my issues than it was with Windows 11. I thought I’d miss HDR in gaming more, but not really noticing much of a difference.
If it wasn’t for Linux, I never would have learned about the Heroic launcher, which lets me run games I got from Epic Game store and GOG without downloading those.
Hoping OpenRGB eventually supports my graphics card and HDR gets better implementation for games.
Many of these issues are why I steer new users toward Fedora KDE or Bazzite instead.
They have their own set of limitations. Fedora has the drivers for my printer but had a strange bug that wouldn’t wake the screen after sleeping, requiring a reboot. Bazzite works well but installing my VPN was really hard to do thanks to its immutable nature. I spent hours trying to solve a problem following all sorts of guides with no results. Often times the commands or programs that work in one tutorial don’t on my PC.
For someone who simply wants plug and play with no additional tinkering, Bazzite or Mint could just work (depending on the hardware you have). For anyone else who was even a moderate Windows power user, it can require a huge amount of tinkering. I don’t know how I’ll be able to get back to running a VPN + torrent while simultaneously dumping the files to my LAN’s SMB NAS drive. I spent hours just tinkering with the VPN’s allowlist and nmap in the console with hardly anything to show for it. Even gigolo wouldn’t work for some reason.
Bind the torrent client to the VPN interface and configure the VPN for a split tunnel.
That part I can do through qbittorrent without hassle. It’s the ability to auto mount the NAS drive and keep it available after starting up the VPN that’s been a major hassle.
Yup. The one thing I tell Linux-curious friends is that you will install the distro of your choice, spend a week and a half on random forums digging up random commands to get everything working properly, and then you should be good.
Yeah, i agree overall. I’m also not an IT-professional. But i’d call myself maybe a pOweRuSer.
In my experience there is no way around the terminal sooner or later. Even after 1 1/2 years of regular linux usage i’m still reluctant to use it because there is so much needed knowledge frontloaded to use it effectivly. But on the other hand the frequency where i NEED to use it is more or less the same compared to the windows equivalents like cmd and powershell. Atleast in my case the last few years on windows involved overall even more tinkering than on linux right now. Probably a different story for many people but it holds true for me.
Outdated guides, wikis, and searchmachine answers certainly fucked me over in my past ventures with linux. Its not like on Windows where you could find that one thread from 2005 which actually has the answer to your hyperspecific windows 11 problem. So looking for a distro with good and current documentation is really important imho for a beginner. In that regard i’m really happy with cachyOS’ own wiki in combination with the arch wiki. On top of that their forums and discord server. I just started to disregard any info older than 1-2 years. Meanwhile searchengines got so much enshittified that i cant rely on them anymore either way.
The file structure completly broke me tbh. It was always my most hated thing with windows. How windows itself and all the programs just leave behind a scattered mess of folders and files with no fucking coherency. In my mind linux had to be soooooo much better in that regard. Like obviously, right? But nah, its somehow even worse. I even used the pretty alright search function to find and purge some last remnants of an uninstalled program. Just to be greeted with another left behind cache file in a hidden folder a few months later.
The file structure in Linux distros actually makes a lot of sense when you begin to understand the parts that don’t make sense.
But yeah. Unless you use something like bazzite the terminal is something you’ll need to use.
This frustrated me when i started using Linux. Then one day i had a neo moment and i was like “I know bash” it just kind of happened.
The best part of Linux , when you get used to the idea, is that anything can be anything and everything is a file.
Something the community is always loathe to admit:
Linux is only “free” if your time is worth nothing.
That was true until Windows started breaking every other week and every major update breaks something fundamental. I moved to Linux to escape the forced update cycle that breaks my desktop so frequently that I gave up on ever having files on my computer and just worked directly off of NAS because any given week had like a 5% chance of requiring that I spend 2 hours reinstalling Windows.
Now Linux, when configured correctly, eats less of your time than Windows, but you have to learn how to use it, just as you had to learn how to use Windows. It is a dumb saying said by people who don’t use Linux because they’re too stupid to learn it, or so stuck in their ways that they can’t break up with their existing workflow, sometimes for valid reasons.
Goes well with “If something bothers you, download the source and fix it yourself”.
Linux, and other FOS software, are free as in freedom not free as in free beer.
lol. Okay, but since you want to be pedantic, most are talking about both, but sure.
edit: btw, the above is such an old interplay, it pre-dates the quote (from c. 1999.) I was literally bored with this 25 years ago.
Im not being pedantic, that’s literally the idea. Most talk about both simply because most can be had without upfront cost, but that isn’t necessarily a requirement.
Many things can be done using the GUI in Mint, but because there’s a lot of different ways of doing things at the GUI level, and no two desktop environments are exactly the same, the command line is often the best fallback, and so instructions for that are generally what’s found (out of date or otherwise) in online guides.
And as you’ve noticed - and it is somewhat annoying - technology continues apace and things often move around so that old guides don’t quite match up with how distros are now.
As for the graphics card, I’m guessing you probably want the proprietary legacy Nvidia driver if the default Nouveau one doesn’t get the best out of it. (I had a GTS450 and it was a sad day when that got moved to the legacy driver. Still worked fine afterwards though.)
The oldest drivers I could find in the repository are 4.2 something I think and their installation crashed. All the other versions don’t enable 1080i (it looks like a stripped blurry mess) including the Nouveau. F’ing with XrandR didn’t help, and the Xorg.conf file ended up crashing my boot to CLI login and at that point I gave up. I’ve seen others have the exact same issue and nobody had relevant advice that worked based on what I could see. I now just set the resolution to the highest one that uses progressive scan and live with that. It’s my own fault for saving $500 like 20 years ago. :P
Anyone who even hints this isn’t the case is at best deluded
Based on what data?
over-generalization is an issue… in both direction, you know.
Guides helping you to navigate this jumbled mess are possibly outdated
‘this jumbled mess’ set aside, 100% agreed.
Based on the data that even Mint, the overwhelming consensus being it is the most user friendly distro available, deemed it necessary to put the terminal on the taskbar. That, and if anything goes wrong and the bootup fails, it defaults to the command line interface.
Based on the data that even Mint, the overwhelming consensus being it is the most user friendly distro available, deemed it necessary to put the terminal on the taskbar. That, and if anything goes wrong and the bootup fails, it defaults to the command line interface.
That’s not data allowing anyone the disqualify an opinion they don’t agree with. A bit like if, to your affirmation, I was to object that on the three computers running Mint in my home (not counting a few others I installed elsewhere) not a single one forced me to use the Terminal. In fact, that’s the reason why I switched to Mint a few years ago: back then I realized it was the sole distro that allowed me to connect my Airpods without any hack at all, just by clicking the Bluetooth pairing button. Instant convert ;)
Even though that’s my own experience, that’s still no data to object your own. We both have different experience (none being truer than the other). I was just pointing that out.
Have a nice first day of the year.
Something as simple as changing audio quality playback requires the terminal in Mint, it’s a whole 5 clicks in Windows and even easier on Mac.
Linux Mint has a generally good user experience but it is still flawed. When something is available in the UI it’s pretty easy but there are myriad settings for general use that simply have zero UI.
The answer from developers is basically always the same… open terminal.
As mentioned by someone else, the reason guides and linux helpers tend to tell you to use terminal, is because it’s already installed, and will work almost regardless of distro.
That doesn’t mean a GUI option does not exist. It’s just that distros essentially being collections of independent software, rather than monolithic integrated systems like windows, they tend not to come installed with all the GUI applications that exist. And if they do, guides and people helping you still can’t rely on you having a particular one installed.
For audio there is a litany of control panel applications you might install, some of which allow doing things that are a right pain on windows.
As an example, I use qpwgraph to route audio from a co-op game into a remote sunshine stream while excluding other system audio, while simultaneously using discord to voice chat with a friend who’d otherwise have to listen to themself as well as the game.
Qpwgraph allows you to route audio in almost any way you might imagine. Want to send each stereo channel to completely different audio devices? Sure. Send system audio into the mic input of a discord call? Why not. Use multiple audio devices at the same time? Go ahead. Flip the stereo channels? Weird, but ok.
And the app isn’t what does it. It’s just a GUI for capabilities that already exist in the pipewire sound server.
Similar cases exists for all kinds of things you might otherwise do in the terminal.
Yeah, I needed to scour forums and use the terminal to make the num lock be on by default on startup for entering my password. And to get a game working. And to get the system to ask which drive to boot from (installed Mint on a separate hard drive instead of a partition). Still haven’t figured out how to sort pictures in a folder by date taken, but I’m gonna take a wild guess that’ll need the terminal…
Still haven’t figured out how to sort pictures in a folder by date taken, but I’m gonna take a wild guess that’ll need the terminal…
It wont. File sort would be a feature and or setting of your file browser. How to use it would depend on your particular file browser.
In KDE dolphin though it would be under “right click>sort by” or “hamburger menu>sort by”.
If you want this to be set separately for each folder, you’d open Dolphin settings (again, the menu, or the shortcut ctrl+shift+,) go to the view tab and set display style to "remember for each folder).
Something as simple as changing audio quality playback requires the terminal in Mint, it’s a whole 5 clicks in Windows and even easier on Mac.
Not sure what you mean by ‘audio quality playback’ but I do do use the Easy Effect app to customize the EQ on a per output basis, if that helps? Edit: the app website
Linux Mint has a generally good user experience but it is still flawed.
Who said otherwise? (and so is macOS, I could not tell for Windows but I have little doubt it’s that perfect either ;) I just pointed out that the OP dismissive tone was a bit too much. End of the story as far as I’m concerned.
For example changing playback quality from 48kbps to 96kbps.
Worse is that setting this then results in automatic upscaling on everything which will have your CPU maxed out.
Linux in general is awful for audiophiles.
I think their tone is perfect, far too many leap to claim you can use LM or other distros without ever needing the terminal and in my experience it’s 100% a lie.
Worse is that setting this then results in automatic upscaling on everything
This is true on all systems. Windows and MacOS both also use internal sound servers to mix all audio sources into the single PCM signal that goes to the sound card.
If incoming PCM signals are at some other samplerate than what is being fed to the audio device, they must be resampled.
You can’t feed two PCM signals at different samplerates into a single output any other way. Or even a single one, if the input samplerate is different from the selected output samplerate.
This is how it works everywhere. Not just linux. It is a fact of digital audio.
which will have your CPU maxed out.
Just. No.
Your system is not going to be burning up the CPU doing audio resampling. It simply isn’t that demanding a task. It’s something all system do regularly anyway, whether it’s upsampling or downsampling, one audio stream (or at least two for stereo) or a dozen, or more.
Linux in general is awful for audiophiles.
This to me is an admission you have no idea what you’re talking about. Linux is PREFERRED by tons of audio engineers because its audio handling and routing capabilities on a system level are unmatched, as well as the ultra-low audio processing latencies it can achieve when configured for it on a kernel level.
Well having my cpu maxed out by this simple change was my experience and that’s with a 7800x3d.
It was the last straw and forced me back to Windows for over a year. Changing this setting should not be so annoying and definitely shouldn’t be hammering a cpu so badly but that’s my experience.
I could not care less about the reasons behind any of it. I have a good sound card and want to be able to set the playback quality easily and without things breaking.
That’s it. I don’t want to learn about PCM mixing sound channels or upsampling or latency. I want it to fucking work.
I will stand by my statement that Linux is awful for audiophiles, Mac beats it all day every day because it actually works without having to open a terminal.
Mint was the most user friendly maybe 5 years ago. But even back then I had lots of problems with it.
It’s development has been slow while strides have been made to the point that I’d consider either Bazzite, popOS, or Zorin the simplest for a new user to get into today.
You mentioned drivers. One of the nice things about Linux is that most old hardware still works. I had an ancient scanner which barely supported Windows 7 (I think it was OK on 32-bit, not on 64-bit). Linux still supports it.
Getting into terminal was part of the fun…for me anyway. I’m still very much an amateur but I enjoy what I’ve learned.
Same. I don’t mind hitting the terminal, even when I was on Windows, because some things are just objectively faster and easier in terminal vs GUI
Yeah, people seem to be thinking I’m criticizing needing to use the CLI but I’m glad I learned it too. It’s empowering to the point it’s cliche. I just feel it isn’t communicated well that ‘user CLI awareness’ needs to be emphasized more. Otherwise, the existential dread of booting to the CLI login prompt with no GUI in sight would destroy newbies.
That’s reasonable.
