Depends on what your time frame is and what you consider a state. Anarchists tend to analyze states as unjustifiable hierarchies entrenched through monopolies on violence, and that they form a “class” in and of themselves. Marxists analyze class by its relation to production and distribution, as a social relation, and see the state as a result of class struggle for the purposes of oppressing other classes. What statelessness looks like, therefore, differs.
Anarchism is primarily about communalization of production. Marxism is primarily about collectivization of production.
When I say “communalization,” I mean anarchists propose horizontalist, decentralized cells, similar to early humanity’s cooperative production but with more interconnection and modern tech. When I say collectivization, I mean the unification of all of humanity into one system, where production and distribution is planned collectively to satisfy the needs of everyone as best as possible.
For anarchists, collectivized society still seems to retain the state, as some anarchists conflate administration with the state as it represents a hierarchy. For Marxists, this focus on communalism creates inter-cell class distinctions, as each cell only truly owns their own means of production, giving rise to class distinctions and thus states in the future.
For Marxists, socialism must have a state, a state can only wither with respect to how far along it has come in collectivizing production and therefore eliminating class. All states are authoritarian, but we cannot get rid of the state without erasing the foundations of the state: class society, and to do so we must collectivize production and distribution globally. Socialist states, where the working class wields its authority against capitalists and fascists, are the means by which this collectivization can actually happen, and are fully in-line with Marx’s beliefs. Communism as a stateless, classless, moneyless society is only possible post-socialism.
Abolishing the state overnight would not create the kind of society Marxists advocate for advancing towards, and if anything, would result in the resumption of competition and the resurgance of capitalism if Marx and Engels predictions are correct.
Communism itself is not static either. It will have its own contradictions that resolve and propel it forward. Gradually, habit replaces more and more of what is already formalized by the state today, but it doesn’t look like the communalist, decentralized cell formation anarchists propose.
I admire how clearly you can answer difficult questions and you general patience in explaining theory. I always learn something from your comments. Thank you for being part of this community and sticking around.
People in the west are shrouded (including me) by the most effectice propaganda bubble ever. We hold fault but at the same time the powers that be need us workers of the world to fight each other and not see that we are all more alike than different. They need that. Thats where the “NAGO anarchist”, “tanky”, and all the other pejoratives spawn from. If they didnt do it we’d have banded together a long time ago and toppled them
Is communism not stateless tho?
I haven’t read enough theory. Wheres cowbee?
To try to answer your question; yes, I believe the original intention would call for a dissolution of the state if successful.
So I’d say communists and anarchists should be besties.
Depends on what your time frame is and what you consider a state. Anarchists tend to analyze states as unjustifiable hierarchies entrenched through monopolies on violence, and that they form a “class” in and of themselves. Marxists analyze class by its relation to production and distribution, as a social relation, and see the state as a result of class struggle for the purposes of oppressing other classes. What statelessness looks like, therefore, differs.
Anarchism is primarily about communalization of production. Marxism is primarily about collectivization of production.
When I say “communalization,” I mean anarchists propose horizontalist, decentralized cells, similar to early humanity’s cooperative production but with more interconnection and modern tech. When I say collectivization, I mean the unification of all of humanity into one system, where production and distribution is planned collectively to satisfy the needs of everyone as best as possible.
For anarchists, collectivized society still seems to retain the state, as some anarchists conflate administration with the state as it represents a hierarchy. For Marxists, this focus on communalism creates inter-cell class distinctions, as each cell only truly owns their own means of production, giving rise to class distinctions and thus states in the future.
For Marxists, socialism must have a state, a state can only wither with respect to how far along it has come in collectivizing production and therefore eliminating class. All states are authoritarian, but we cannot get rid of the state without erasing the foundations of the state: class society, and to do so we must collectivize production and distribution globally. Socialist states, where the working class wields its authority against capitalists and fascists, are the means by which this collectivization can actually happen, and are fully in-line with Marx’s beliefs. Communism as a stateless, classless, moneyless society is only possible post-socialism.
Abolishing the state overnight would not create the kind of society Marxists advocate for advancing towards, and if anything, would result in the resumption of competition and the resurgance of capitalism if Marx and Engels predictions are correct.
Communism itself is not static either. It will have its own contradictions that resolve and propel it forward. Gradually, habit replaces more and more of what is already formalized by the state today, but it doesn’t look like the communalist, decentralized cell formation anarchists propose.
I admire how clearly you can answer difficult questions and you general patience in explaining theory. I always learn something from your comments. Thank you for being part of this community and sticking around.
Thanks, comrade!
Philosophically I’m an anarchist, so pragmatically I’m a communist, and currently I’m a socialist [that supports Actually Existing Socialism].
This is what gets called ‘red fash tankie’ by western chauvinists claiming to be leftists.
People in the west are shrouded (including me) by the most effectice propaganda bubble ever. We hold fault but at the same time the powers that be need us workers of the world to fight each other and not see that we are all more alike than different. They need that. Thats where the “NAGO anarchist”, “tanky”, and all the other pejoratives spawn from. If they didnt do it we’d have banded together a long time ago and toppled them
@[email protected] or @[email protected] the bat signal has been lit
Roger!