You must log in or register to comment.
faction A will just say faction B isn’t “really leftist” so therefore their attacks don’t count as “leftist infighting”
It’s not all CIA. In fact, in a lot of cases, it’s just human nature, especially our tribalism. I have seen the same amount of “leftist gatekeepers” by ratio as I’ve seen fandom ones, often on the same exact beats being translated into leftist linguo.
Yes, we need to put our disagreements aside and focus on our real enemy… The People’s Front of Judea!
Joke’s on you, Mr. CIA Man, I want to be easier to penetrate
bonk
bonked all the way to horny
jailCIA blacksitebonk harder nanny
It’s not even always a MLM/anarchist split.
I’ve run into some terminally online-dumb shit. Look at my account age and post count for how strong a claim I’m making here:
I’m less terminally online brain poisoned and social media brain rotted than 95% of the people I find in left spaces in California. It’s wild.
It’s not even about real ideology sometimes. I recommended an essay about why being a cop is bullshit by George Orwell and got iced out of a mutual aid project for ‘liking problematic authors’, and that’s not even the dumbest one. I’ve been called ableist about a disability I have for saying reading theory has value.
3.2k over 2 months is numbers I generally attribute to bots/shills. Is that a normal level of online in your spaces?
No, that’s what I’m saying. I am buried in and embalmed with grass compared to most people I’ve met.
There are real problems in organizing, and I too have seen things like you’re describing. I just try not to take part in such petty squabbles. If a group is too wound up with internal politics to get anything done, I just find somewhere else to put my energy.
Yeah. It means I work without other organizers most of the time, bringing people up from total disempowerment. Need to move on pretty often to avoid… excessive regard.
Keep doing what you’re doing ✊
It’s not the easiest way to do things, or the most rewarding. I fail a lot.
“Leftism” is an umbrella term that encapsulates dozens of ideologies. “Leftist infighting” is a result of these groups wanting different things as they explicitly have different goals.
A communist and an anarchist doing “infighting” is largely a result of them having completely different goals, not CIA mind-control.
The CIA narrative you’re referring to pertains largely to socialist organization specifically.
My general observation:
Yankistanis on their capitalists raining in on societal failures causing division:
Chinese 50 cent army, Russian Bot farms, Tankies. Russian Trolls. We see you, comrade. They’re trying to divide us. Reeeeee
Yankistanis when a recorded history of CIA interference, coup, embargo, wars, propaganda where most yankistanis shrieks at the mention of the words and country trying a different economic system:
It’s not the CIA. Trust me bro!
How can you be certain either way?
It’s both. Popular fronts are a thing, and Spanish Republican style coalitions are incredibly powerful tools. Political pluralism within leftist movements is healthy when we let it be healthy. The CIA, FBI, and various governments and reactionary groups have engaged in psyops against this for decades.
But these divisions are real and they come from real ideological differences and hurt. The CIA didn’t force the red army to fire on the black armies, it didn’t force the blunder of ideology at Kronstadt, it didn’t force the betrayal in Spain. And it also didn’t force anarchists to have issues controlling their people or implementing their goals. It didn’t force the syndicalists to fuck up in South America and Berlin. And it didn’t force the USSR and CCP to nearly go to war with each other.
What they did do however is project Gladius, COINTELPRO, operation condor, and various other anti left programs. They made damn sure Fred Hampton died and they made sure the Black Panthers couldn’t trust each other enough to be effective. They also made sure the inner cities were filled with crack to destroy black anti capitalist organizing.
And here’s where you get the mix. Anarchists already don’t trust MLs, because of the aforementioned betrayals and disorganization, then you get government campaigns working to ensure that trust remains broken and that the culture becomes one in which cooperation is anathema. And the trots are kept distrustful of the MLs and the anarchists. MLs are encouraged to keep thinking of themselves as the only real socialists except MLMs. It’s similar to the Russian campaigns between democrats and republicans, both already didn’t like each other and the goal is to keep picking at the wounds and encouraging off putting behaviors.
Speaking at least in the context of the US, any revolutionary minded leftists (or “leftists”, if you prefer) have goals that diverge so far from the present day as to be irrelevant.
Right but it isn’t that easy. MLs and Trotskyists were taught things a certain way, a way that developed contrary to each other. Trotskyists and anarchists were purged ruthlessly and that has an effect on our politics. It would be nice to just dispense with it, but its not that easy. As long as people learn organizing from more experienced organizers, we will carry baggage from the past into the future. It takes an enormous amount of work and reflection to overcome, and I argue that most leftists regardless of ideology lack the tools that are needed, because many of us also carry the baggage of philosophical liberalism by default, either we don’t know how it affects us or when we do know we act contrary to it, which is still a source of heavy influence.
This isn’t being doomer about it, the solution is praxis, but the problems caused by history do actually exist, and have to be reckoned with
An easy thing we can all do, is refrain from sniping at one another online. I don’t mean serious discussion in good faith, but throwing barbs and shit.
I wish.
This is why I I try to focus on the right and just ignore stupid people on the left. They can be by my side as long as they throw rocks at the fascists.
This is why I work on blind solidarity. If a leftist organization organizes something and I like it I help it and assume they’re better than Democrats. If I think its demonic I ignore it.
Plus I like bragging about achieving to an infighter
It’s because we actually care about being correct
And prefer it over doing anything.
So true
And that’s a weakness that the elites target in us. We need to target their weaknesses, like their soft bellies, or their flimsy neck vertebra.
Not everything is the fault of the CIA. I don’t think left parties need any help in self-destruction, they are well capable in this department. 😁
It’s how it is, because the left parties are democratic and discuss many ideas and people get passionate about different things. The right are usually authoritarian and people fall in line, no matter how much they disagree with the actual set of ideas, also because of the consequences.
It’s the natural natural way of things.
Sure. Wrecking absolutely exploits existing vulnerabilities. Resist exacerbating such vulnerabilities.
Post needs text alternative.
So, are tankies a CIA operation?
Not necessarily, but I’ve seen capitalists preferring them to less-authoritarian leftists for some weird reasons, likely as they can push a certain kind of narrative about leftists with them much easier.
Tankies are a “CIA operation” in the sense that they’re responsible for the CIAs existence. It’s been the only historical threat to capitalist western powers.
If they didn’t have a suitable threat, they’d have invented one.
They didn’t need to invent one.
…yes thats what they were implying.
Yeah.
honestly, most “leftist infighting” is men who won’t stop hanging out with their rapist mates who got kicked out of an organising space. im an ancom but we have a wide array of ideologies in our scene but the bullshit shows up wherever you organise.
That may be a more inflated issue in your local scene. Where I am, brocialists have been excluded from many groups.
the irony of this coming from an ml user lol
🙄
Sounds like something a CIA agent would say!
Remember, it’s only leftist infighting when you disagree with them.
nah I mean if any of those people over there did anything productive in the real world I’d absolutely join. I can set differences aside for the greater good. unfortunately, most on ml serve only to disparage and divide, with no positive real world impact. you ever post a comment on a tankie post and get 13 people with essay responses complete with irrelevant/propaganda sources and uncited statistics? those take time to create, even if you are bullshitting together sources as they tend to do. that’s time that could have been spent talking to real leftists IRL or making real change in your community, which is desperately needed right now. there are more IRL leftist spaces around than you would think, but most of these ml tankies will not join an IRL space as an IRL leftist will punch you when you deny tiananmen square or say that ukranians are Nazis or any of the other horrid shit I’ve seen come from that chronically online “leftist” cesspool.
even memes like this become hard to take at face value. obviously I don’t know anything about this particular user and don’t feel the need to dig through profile history or mod logs, but a lot of shit like this coming from ml comes down to projection at best.
The CIA and Chinese troll farms lately
Chinese troll farms are trying to divide leftists?
Wouldn’t be surprising, leftist beliefs are a threat to capitalism.
