They weren’t over using it because it was free, though, that’s the thing. They were using it for a legitimate purpose: feeding others and supporting themselves financially. They didn’t choose how the complex handled billing for water, and people like this will usually happily pay their fair share given the opportunity. We as a society act like people cramming their ten person family into a two bedroom apartment are the ones taking advantage of the system when it’s 1000% the other way around.
and people like this will usually happily pay their fair share given the opportunity.
That’s speculation at best. People cramming 10 people into a 2 person home isn’t taking advantage of a system, but using 32x more water than the average user is. They were running this business out of their home without required health and safety inspections, it was in violation of the HOA rules, and almost certainly in violation of the terms of their lease. After I left, the HOA put in sub-metering so each unit did have to pay their own water bill.
Your argument is that most people are willing to do things the right way if they have the opportunity, but clearly they couldn’t have made this happen legitimately or else they would have rented a business location or started a food truck. It’s not excusable to do things the wrong way and benefit because if you had done it the right way you wouldn’t have benefited.
It’s like if I said, “I only ran this profitable illegal business because if I had done it legally it wouldn’t be profitable. Yeah, I lack the opportunities in life (like a rich family) to have done this legitimately so that totally excuses me taking advantage of my neighbors.”
I’m all for saying fuck corporations, but this is just hurting your direct neighbors and breaking health and safety laws that are meant to keep people safe.
I mean that’s what you’re doing, too. That’s part of having a conversation. There are statistics that back my speculation, but at the end of the day we’re discussing strangers.
That being said, people making the best of their situation are never taking advantage of a system, especially a system designed specifically to keep them down. You think they’re crammed into that condo, five to a bedroom, by choice?
The 32x water usage is nothing compared to what corporations take from us every second of every minute of every day when they’re actually taking advantage of the system. This family is, again, feeding people and simply trying to survive. The system wants you to condemn the family of immigrants rather than the single billionaires taking exponentially more from each of us and doing exponentially more damage. And that’s not speculation, that’s how it is.
And they should have had individual meters in the first place, so let’s not act like that’s the consequence of some grave injustice, either. Would have prevented the whole issue in the first place.
I mean that’s what you’re doing, too. That’s part of having a conversation. There are statistics that back my speculation
Except I’m not speculating, this isn’t a statistic or something that has room for negotiation. I’m telling you a series of events which occurred and had real world impacts on immediate neighbors. You’re glossing over most of my argument because on a large scale statistics point to an out come that supports your belief rather than the event that happened to me.
You then are dismissing microscale misuse because corporations do worse as if that makes it ok? If your poor neighbor steals your car to survive, but I tell you that big corporations have stolen more from you that doesn’t change the fact that your neighbor stole your car!
Also, I never said they were immigrants, that was your assumption and they weren’t. Also, why does their immigration status matter in this argument?
Also, why should they have individual meters in the first place when the existing system had worked for over a decade without issue and was functionally cheaper. This is an HOA, these units were owned primarily by single owners with a handful of rentals. Adding individual meters meant the homeowners had to pay to have them put into their own homes, they had to then pay a third party sub-metering service, and then they had to pay the actual bill itself.
All in all the HOA gave the homeowners the option to either raise everyone’s HOA dues by 20%, ban renting in the complex, or install sub-metering and the community decided to go with sub-metering.
Let me put it into perspective, these two abnormal building bills accounted for $47,000 a year in extra water charges or about 20% of the HOA’s annual budget (and that’s just the excess, not the rest of the bill).
But yeah, it’s ok to fuck over your neighbors because you’re struggling and corporations are worse.
And you’re sure that the HOA isn’t just using it as an excuse to get extra cash? It’s an EU law to have individual metering, and it should in reality save everyone money (after the initial install costs). Unless you’re consuming more than anyone else, IDM should only save you money and is better for the environment by giving more incentive to be efficient.
I assume you already have electricity individually metered, right? Why should water be any different, if it’s so expensive? I can’t think of any reason why your bill would now be significantly more expensive, unless you yourself are a high-user, or your HOA is ripping you off.
You’re correct in that you never said they were immigrants. You said they were a family living 10 people to a two bedroom and running a restaurant that sells food out the window. This is an extremely common immigration tactic, and doesn’t occur much outside of that scenario, but okay I will withdraw my assumption. The rest, however, remains the same. These people weren’t stealing cars, they weren’t stealing anything from anyone. Their water use wasn’t stealing. Their water use didn’t take water out of your house and it didn’t adversely affect anyone or anything aside from a poorly planned HOA water monitoring system. Like you said, these units are owned primarily by single owners. Why shouldn’t they have individual meters?
$180 a month is a miserable HOA fee and a high water bill for a single person in a condo alone as well. I don’t know why they’d have to pay for their own meter or monitoring service, that’s never been the case anywhere I’ve ever lived, but I’m positive they saved money in the long run assuming the HOA reflected the change in their monthly dues. But again, they didn’t steal and they didn’t fuck over their neighbors. They fed people, boosted the local economy, and shone a light on shitty HOA practices.
Also, why should they have individual meters in the first place when the existing system had worked for over a decade without issue
So any system that has functioned historically should never be reconsidered or replaced? Who exactly was it working for? Are you worried about the bottom line of your HOA?
Let me put it into perspective, these two abnormal building bills accounted for $47,000 a year in extra water charges or about 20% of the HOA’s annual budget (and that’s just the excess, not the rest of the bill).
But yeah, it’s ok to fuck over your neighbors because you’re struggling and corporations are worse.
I’ve gotta say, it sounds like the only ones doing the fucking over here are the HOA to it’s tenants, then using the totally not migrant renters as a scapegoat. pretty typical HOA stuff in my experience.
They weren’t over using it because it was free, though, that’s the thing. They were using it for a legitimate purpose: feeding others and supporting themselves financially. They didn’t choose how the complex handled billing for water, and people like this will usually happily pay their fair share given the opportunity. We as a society act like people cramming their ten person family into a two bedroom apartment are the ones taking advantage of the system when it’s 1000% the other way around.
That’s speculation at best. People cramming 10 people into a 2 person home isn’t taking advantage of a system, but using 32x more water than the average user is. They were running this business out of their home without required health and safety inspections, it was in violation of the HOA rules, and almost certainly in violation of the terms of their lease. After I left, the HOA put in sub-metering so each unit did have to pay their own water bill.
Your argument is that most people are willing to do things the right way if they have the opportunity, but clearly they couldn’t have made this happen legitimately or else they would have rented a business location or started a food truck. It’s not excusable to do things the wrong way and benefit because if you had done it the right way you wouldn’t have benefited.
It’s like if I said, “I only ran this profitable illegal business because if I had done it legally it wouldn’t be profitable. Yeah, I lack the opportunities in life (like a rich family) to have done this legitimately so that totally excuses me taking advantage of my neighbors.”
I’m all for saying fuck corporations, but this is just hurting your direct neighbors and breaking health and safety laws that are meant to keep people safe.
I mean that’s what you’re doing, too. That’s part of having a conversation. There are statistics that back my speculation, but at the end of the day we’re discussing strangers.
That being said, people making the best of their situation are never taking advantage of a system, especially a system designed specifically to keep them down. You think they’re crammed into that condo, five to a bedroom, by choice? The 32x water usage is nothing compared to what corporations take from us every second of every minute of every day when they’re actually taking advantage of the system. This family is, again, feeding people and simply trying to survive. The system wants you to condemn the family of immigrants rather than the single billionaires taking exponentially more from each of us and doing exponentially more damage. And that’s not speculation, that’s how it is. And they should have had individual meters in the first place, so let’s not act like that’s the consequence of some grave injustice, either. Would have prevented the whole issue in the first place.
Except I’m not speculating, this isn’t a statistic or something that has room for negotiation. I’m telling you a series of events which occurred and had real world impacts on immediate neighbors. You’re glossing over most of my argument because on a large scale statistics point to an out come that supports your belief rather than the event that happened to me.
You then are dismissing microscale misuse because corporations do worse as if that makes it ok? If your poor neighbor steals your car to survive, but I tell you that big corporations have stolen more from you that doesn’t change the fact that your neighbor stole your car!
Also, I never said they were immigrants, that was your assumption and they weren’t. Also, why does their immigration status matter in this argument?
Also, why should they have individual meters in the first place when the existing system had worked for over a decade without issue and was functionally cheaper. This is an HOA, these units were owned primarily by single owners with a handful of rentals. Adding individual meters meant the homeowners had to pay to have them put into their own homes, they had to then pay a third party sub-metering service, and then they had to pay the actual bill itself.
All in all the HOA gave the homeowners the option to either raise everyone’s HOA dues by 20%, ban renting in the complex, or install sub-metering and the community decided to go with sub-metering.
Let me put it into perspective, these two abnormal building bills accounted for $47,000 a year in extra water charges or about 20% of the HOA’s annual budget (and that’s just the excess, not the rest of the bill).
But yeah, it’s ok to fuck over your neighbors because you’re struggling and corporations are worse.
And you’re sure that the HOA isn’t just using it as an excuse to get extra cash? It’s an EU law to have individual metering, and it should in reality save everyone money (after the initial install costs). Unless you’re consuming more than anyone else, IDM should only save you money and is better for the environment by giving more incentive to be efficient.
I assume you already have electricity individually metered, right? Why should water be any different, if it’s so expensive? I can’t think of any reason why your bill would now be significantly more expensive, unless you yourself are a high-user, or your HOA is ripping you off.
You’re correct in that you never said they were immigrants. You said they were a family living 10 people to a two bedroom and running a restaurant that sells food out the window. This is an extremely common immigration tactic, and doesn’t occur much outside of that scenario, but okay I will withdraw my assumption. The rest, however, remains the same. These people weren’t stealing cars, they weren’t stealing anything from anyone. Their water use wasn’t stealing. Their water use didn’t take water out of your house and it didn’t adversely affect anyone or anything aside from a poorly planned HOA water monitoring system. Like you said, these units are owned primarily by single owners. Why shouldn’t they have individual meters? $180 a month is a miserable HOA fee and a high water bill for a single person in a condo alone as well. I don’t know why they’d have to pay for their own meter or monitoring service, that’s never been the case anywhere I’ve ever lived, but I’m positive they saved money in the long run assuming the HOA reflected the change in their monthly dues. But again, they didn’t steal and they didn’t fuck over their neighbors. They fed people, boosted the local economy, and shone a light on shitty HOA practices.
So any system that has functioned historically should never be reconsidered or replaced? Who exactly was it working for? Are you worried about the bottom line of your HOA?
I’ve gotta say, it sounds like the only ones doing the fucking over here are the HOA to it’s tenants, then using the totally not migrant renters as a scapegoat. pretty typical HOA stuff in my experience.