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Notice how they never mention that the Soviets offered to fight Hitler with the rest of Europe, but England and France refused. Then they signed a treaty with the Nazis while the rest of Europe joined the Nazis.
Because they didn’t refuse, they took too long. Britain wasn’t taking it seriously, because they assumed they had all the time in the world, so they used the slow boats over planes for communication - after all it’s not like the USSR was going to ally with the Nazi’s or anything. And France naively took a backseat and let England do all the talking because they were still too weak after WW1 to really care, even if they were more keen on the alliance. It all fell apart because the Soviets felt they weren’t really committed and the Allies felt it was too demanding.
Likewise the French had earlier entered into a mutual assistance pact with the Soviets in 1935 , but this failed due to how conditional it was and became largely symbolic of nothing.
There’s a lot to fault Britain and France for in regards to the talks, but to say they refused is in bad faith.
The did not just “take too long”. They did not respond period.
The Nazis were very clearly gearing up and the rest of Europe was too stuck with politicians refusing to war up because it was not popular after ww1. The Soviets knew what was up.
What? There was multiple back and forth discussions. It was an ongoing process for a long time.
Which discussion are you talking about right now?
The USSR signed the pact with the Nazis because they literally got no response and were not going to wait on games.
They knew the West were glad to have the Nazis fight the Soviets. So by simply stalling the West could heavily disadvantage the Soviets and rake up big casualties on both sides.
Now, if the West sent a letter accepting the Soviets request and the to fight the Nazis, and then the Soviets ditched them, you would have a point. But this did not happen.
What Europe did during WW2 was infinitely worse than the Soviets. The hypocrisy is off the charts.
Also notice how they never mention that the point of the “pact” was that the eastern half stays polish, but since the polish government fled south out of Poland, the polish state was de facto no more. The USSR afterwards waited two weeks before going in and securing the line.
France and USSR actually signed “some kind” of mutual assistance agreement against Nazi Germany before the war started. Emphasis on “some kind” because the agreement wasn’t binding and very vague on when and how should they assist with each other.
First panel right out the gates with a strawman
lots of people unironically claim this
“Lots of people” my ass.
Almost five decades on the planet and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a single person unironically claim the Soviets deserve “all the credit”, only that their contribution is vastly played down in the history curriculums of most Western schools.
well, almost five decades on the planet and i’ve heard this claim plenty of times.
my subjective experience cancels out yours.
Credits for the downfall of nazis go to the nazis
Poland, Romania, Finland, the Baltics (if I’m not mistaken) - they all suffered the effects of that “non-agression”
america will claim the same in the future regarding israel once israel’s genocide expands beyond palestine.
Please. It’d be nice to get to the point where the US stops funding Israel’s genocide.
i guess bibi just hates jews, arabs and everyone else equally — just as dtrump, pupin, xi and co. do… Also i assume by typing “america” here you pointing on fsb-infiltrated 🍊 fuckface and it’s supporters, not on states’ citizens as whole, since only brainrot junk classifies people solely by the fact to which social group they’re belonging Basically, this mechanism works on global scale now, it’s input and output of every “independent” modern country. Like there’s a leader, who’s main purpose is to make or rather force other countries’ citizens to hate citizens under his jurisdiction (by stimulating them to do shit towards others). Then, using this accumulated hatred, they release war hounds and extermination overpumped by hatred begins. It may be each country against all other or alliances vs alliances. But this external hatred is not kinda enough according to them, so they also stimulate division among people within each country. Then a brave new world of ignorance comes out with words like “peace”, “equality”, “mercy”, “forgiveness”, “ethics”, “morality”, “literally_anything_good_hood”, etc. coming from every corner and every shithole. There are just less people and not much clue on da fuck have happened. Lives that can’t be restored, wasted time that can’t be regained.
Paragraphs. It’s a tool you can learn.
that was a lot of ramble. just let me know if you support israel and genocide, kthx.
i guess bibi just hates jews, arabs and everyone else equally — just as dtrump, pupin, xi and co. do… Also i assume by typing “america” here you pointing on fsb-infiltrated 🍊 fuckface and it’s supporters, not on states’ citizens as whole, since only ultra[any direction] brainrot junk classifies people solely by the fact to which social group they’re belonging. Basically, this mechanism works on global scale now, it’s input and output of every “independent” modern country. Like there’s a formal leader, who’s main purpose is to make or rather force other countries’ citizens to hate citizens under his jurisdiction (by stimulating them to do shit towards others). Then, using this accumulated hatred, they release war hounds and extermination overpumped by hatred begins. It may be each country against all other or alliances vs alliances. But this external hatred is not kinda enough according to them, so they also actively stimulate division among people within each country. Then a brave new world of ignorance comes out of bloodshed with words like “peace”, “equality”, “mercy”, “forgiveness”, “ethics”, “morality”, “literally_anything_good_hood”, etc. coming from every corner and every shithole. There are just less people and not much clue on da fuck have happened. Lives that can’t be restored, wasted time that can’t be regained. Ah, also this mentioned “genocide”. It’ll be nice to remember that it’s not the only extermination occuring in modern world. And it’s not even full scale, bruh. Imagine shit that’ll happen when genocide areas of different empires will start to intersect each other. Oof 🗿 like big one oooofff and then only wasteland — no people, no animals, no plants, no signs of life on shapeless ruins of something that… was. Probably something alike already happened/is happening, but right now nothing specific comes to my mind really, so think yourself if needed
The Soviets deserve even more credit for being able to defeat the Nazis after they supplied the Nazi war machine for a couple of years. Whether or not the USSR should be admired for everything they did in WWII is another matter.
Of course, we can call out the Soviet atrocities, but credit to the superhuman sacrifices they made and snatching victory from the jaws of defeat despite being back stabbed and caught on the wrong footing by the Germans. The thing is with World War II is that it’s a fight between evil and lesser evil. The Allies were objectively less bad, even though they had colonies and committed heinous acts in the previous 400 years of colonisation and even during the war. A joke in Tropico videogame sums up the meta-nature of the belligerents in World War 2 when you are forced to take sides: “One is bombing civilians. The other-- is evil.”
Whether or not the USSR should be admired for everything they did in WWII is another matter.
Well that matter is quite simple; No the shouldn’t. As anyone with a basic understanding of The War should know.
The Allied effort on beating the Nazi war machine was a collective effort, and no single country has the right to take the full credit for it, imo. Not the US, France, not even the UK (which, however, is to be appreciated for standing up to Hitler during the harder times, even under a conservative government) - as a Romanian, I would argue that much less the USSR, which forcefully imposed the abdication of our king and backed the communist’s terror regime against its political opposition.
Had this collective effort not existed, we would probably be today under the influence of the 3rd Reich and with probably more dead than there were already.
Decades of propaganda saying that the US was responsible for defeating the Germans. Finally when enough historians and other scholars have weighed in and said, “really though, it was the USSR that did the most to defeat Germany”, now people say “well, it was a collective effort and no single country should be claiming credit.”
History is a science. Like all sciences, it uses the findings to reach various conclusions. At least you got historians that judged history based on actual facts. Over here in my country, decades of “historians” told my parents that there was a “antifascist uprising” that made the Germans run away. Everything to whitewash the fact that our last king was someone else than a womanizer who cared more about who was he sleeping with, and was still alive and doing mundane things like flying planes (yes, search for Michael I of Romania).
When communism collapsed, the same historians reached to the conclusion that “hey, there was no uprising” and rather everyone across the political spectrum was concerned about Antonescu’s erratic decisions and continued loyalty to Hitler despite the Soviets entering our country. So they allied with the communists, and decided a coup, flipping the weapons against the Germans. Meanwhile the Romanian delegation to Moscow was denied discussions for almost 12 days, conveniently enough for the Soviets to inflict some more damage, together with the Germans who were now in conflict with us as well (hmm, something-something Poland? Sounds familiar?).
Then the Soviets, in their characteristic way of letting others do the fighting and dying in the 1st line for them, decided to do that with us as well. That’s how both Hungary and Czechoslovakia were liberated. Of course they couldn’t continue with that 'till the end, since they were the ones that needed to collect the trophy, the big prize. So that’s how far they let us like that.
Back at home, soviets rejected every single government proposal that was not led by communists and where communists didn’t hold key portfolios (like Internal Affairs). After they got that, they did all they could to fraud the parliamentary elections, then flipped the results and got rid of all the evidence. So they installed a new government with communist ministers only.
But the communist historians in here never told our parents all these. :)
god i wish i could force a king to abdicate while backing a communist regime against my political opponents.
All while threatening him it could be either that or 1000 students would be killed? Hmmm, it would likely be a hugely unpopular action and lots of people would call your regime illegitimate and would want you dead :)
To be fair they did offer to work with the British and were rejected. Both Britain and France were more than willing to allow Nazi Germany to steamroll the soviets to cause the downfall of socialism. The Soviets in turn decided to allow the Nazis to invade the imperialists.
It was an awful Gambit but it did pay off, both the British and French empires were crippled and the soviets didn’t need to shoot a single bullet at them.
Can we stop rolling this utter bullshit around? No one was willing to fight another prolonged conflict with Germany after the massacre that WW1 turned to be. They tried to appease Germany in the hope that diplomatic efforts would prevent further bloodshed. Stalin was in bed with Hitler. Hitler offered Stalin everything he wanted: the ability to exert his imperial ambitions in Central and Eastern Europe unhinged, all while pounding from the West in order to keep us busy. France also offered security guarantees to Romania agains the Soviets but didn’t honour them. Which imperialists were the soviets fight with in the 1930s?
Apparently so were the Baltic states and Finland
Finland got a lot closer than they want to admit, but getting invaded by the Soviets sure didn’t help that. I genuinely wonder sometimes what would have happened if the Nazis themselves weren’t arguing about what kind of untermensch Suomi are, that makes joining a team difficult.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen even a tankie say Poland was invaded for being Nazis? Irredentist arguments about Russian imperial holdings, oddly enough, the hypocrisy is lost on them. I don’t argue with them much though. You can’t fix willful ignorance.
