There is actually technically no such thing as an authoritarian leftist. Leftism is defined as more egalitarian/less hierarchical. Tankies are right wingers that have been pushed into the same spaces as leftists because they are against Western nationalism.
Also, because setting up a “Left Wing” country or society doesn’t mean people with a Right Wing outlook on life cease to exist. They have to candy coat their beliefs in the language of Leftism but that doesn’t make it leftism.
You’ve fallen into the trap. Political stances aren’t on a spectrum, they’re multi dimensional
Some leftists believe in anarchy, in a lack of hard boundaries and a more organic cultural resistance to bad actors. Some believe in rigid structure, in the rules creating equity and equality.
Tankies believe in an authoritarian, top down force that will impress ideology onto the masses.
All lefties believe in equity and/or equality. That’s the common thread. Tankies are crazy high on the authoritarian vs anarchy spectrum, but they genuinely think that road will lead to an equitable society
Left and Right are specifically about how people view power and authority. Nothing else. Left is no kings, Right is kings. Over time that got fleshed out and more nuanced but the point remains. Anarchists are the farthest Left you can go and Absolute Monarchs are the farthest Right you can go.
That’s an insane paradigm. That’s putting so many things on one axis
You have to try to understand others from where they are. The right is generally bad, but they also believe in people… Which has merit. The left is generally good, except when their plans are bat shit insane
Personally, I believe anarcho-communism is the ideal situation. It’s also bat shit insane. I don’t know if I could live in such a society, I’m certain most people today couldn’t
You have to see the nuance and see where people agree and differ. Every successful political movement is evangelical. I refuse to believe most people don’t want to live in a better world, they’re just generally really fucking stupid
But they have values… Some are good and some are bad. Some are inherent and some are learned.
Good things are good, bad things are bad. We have enough food to overfeed everyone… People shouldn’t starve. You can believe in that fact, I think nearly everyone believes this, while also being a too dumb to understand how to solve that contradiction
There’s no objectively best system. The world is a messy place. The best system is the one that works best at the moment
Then do some thinking. You’re clearly not processing what’s being said. A whole bunch of different people with different beliefs that believed in No Kings all literally sat on the Left side of the room. A whole bunch of people who believed in kings and tradition sat on the Right side of the room. Literally. Physically sat there on different sides of the room. How complicated is that?
“Tankie” is just a pejorative for those who support socialism in the real world. It’s a caricature, the “tankie” is someone that believes everything levied against socialist states by the west is both true and good. In reality, many groups and figures like the Black Panther Party, Nelson Mandela, etc are supportive of socialist states, and are thus the same “tankies” demonized by anti-communists.
Economies where public ownwership is the principle aspect of the economy and where the working classes are in control of the state are neither fascist nor capitalist.
The working classes are in control of the state in socialist countries. They do “tankie shit” like overthrowing fascists and expropriating capital from capitalists, doing land reform from landlords, etc, which is both authoritarian towards the capitalists, landlords, and fascists while being liberating for the working classes.
So you’re saying that the working class Chinese citizens have direct, official power over the means of production and can use that to further the political goals of the working class with no repercussions?
Yes, the CPC is a working class party with a hair over 100 million members, and the system of democracy in China is distributed into local, regional, and the central government.
Oh, the government is separated into smaller local and regional governments and less than 10% of all Chinese citizens (there are 1.4 billion) are members of the CCP? Cool fun facts, I always love to learn, but you did not answer my question.
Does the government of the People’s Republic of China support and protect the legal right of the working class to control the means of production?
Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, and the working class is in control of the state. These are the basic requirements for socialism, at least in the Marxist understanding. I’m not sure what exactly you are referring to, a petite bourgeois cooperative quasi-socialism? If the working class directing the economy, as I already explained is the case in China, isn’t “controlling the means of production,” what exactly is your vision here? Because it certainly isn’t standard.
So… no protections, no real policy, no solid connection between the working class and power except for this notion that the government has the interests of the working class at heart. Is that right?
Read through the above list and tell me these people must work for a living, that they could not live solely off of their assets. Why are these 607 people allowed to hoard such massive wealth and own so much if the working class controls the means of production and the economy? How is that good for anyone?
There is actually technically no such thing as an authoritarian leftist. Leftism is defined as more egalitarian/less hierarchical. Tankies are right wingers that have been pushed into the same spaces as leftists because they are against Western nationalism.
Also, because setting up a “Left Wing” country or society doesn’t mean people with a Right Wing outlook on life cease to exist. They have to candy coat their beliefs in the language of Leftism but that doesn’t make it leftism.
You’ve fallen into the trap. Political stances aren’t on a spectrum, they’re multi dimensional
Some leftists believe in anarchy, in a lack of hard boundaries and a more organic cultural resistance to bad actors. Some believe in rigid structure, in the rules creating equity and equality.
Tankies believe in an authoritarian, top down force that will impress ideology onto the masses.
All lefties believe in equity and/or equality. That’s the common thread. Tankies are crazy high on the authoritarian vs anarchy spectrum, but they genuinely think that road will lead to an equitable society
Left and Right are specifically about how people view power and authority. Nothing else. Left is no kings, Right is kings. Over time that got fleshed out and more nuanced but the point remains. Anarchists are the farthest Left you can go and Absolute Monarchs are the farthest Right you can go.
That’s an insane paradigm. That’s putting so many things on one axis
You have to try to understand others from where they are. The right is generally bad, but they also believe in people… Which has merit. The left is generally good, except when their plans are bat shit insane
Personally, I believe anarcho-communism is the ideal situation. It’s also bat shit insane. I don’t know if I could live in such a society, I’m certain most people today couldn’t
You have to see the nuance and see where people agree and differ. Every successful political movement is evangelical. I refuse to believe most people don’t want to live in a better world, they’re just generally really fucking stupid
But they have values… Some are good and some are bad. Some are inherent and some are learned.
Good things are good, bad things are bad. We have enough food to overfeed everyone… People shouldn’t starve. You can believe in that fact, I think nearly everyone believes this, while also being a too dumb to understand how to solve that contradiction
There’s no objectively best system. The world is a messy place. The best system is the one that works best at the moment
It puts very little on one axis. No kings or Kings. Originally that was literally a question of how people wanted the French revolution to go.
The French revolution wasn’t that simple. Read up on Honoré Gabriel Riqueti, and how he pushed the assignant and destroyed the French economy
It’s never that simple. Life, and how humanity organizes itself, is always far more complicated
The revolution was not simple but the seating chart was very simple.
Neat way to reduce a complicated situation to something simple. No deeper lessons to be learned
Thinking takes effort. It’s easy to spout platitudes
Then do some thinking. You’re clearly not processing what’s being said. A whole bunch of different people with different beliefs that believed in No Kings all literally sat on the Left side of the room. A whole bunch of people who believed in kings and tradition sat on the Right side of the room. Literally. Physically sat there on different sides of the room. How complicated is that?
Authoritarian anti-capitalist then
“Tankie” is just a pejorative for those who support socialism in the real world. It’s a caricature, the “tankie” is someone that believes everything levied against socialist states by the west is both true and good. In reality, many groups and figures like the Black Panther Party, Nelson Mandela, etc are supportive of socialist states, and are thus the same “tankies” demonized by anti-communists.
I don’t care what you call it, I’m not supporting fascist state capitalism.
Economies where public ownwership is the principle aspect of the economy and where the working classes are in control of the state are neither fascist nor capitalist.
If the working class were in control of the state they wouldn’t do Tankie shit or get called Tankies.
The working classes are in control of the state in socialist countries. They do “tankie shit” like overthrowing fascists and expropriating capital from capitalists, doing land reform from landlords, etc, which is both authoritarian towards the capitalists, landlords, and fascists while being liberating for the working classes.
So you’re saying that the working class Chinese citizens have direct, official power over the means of production and can use that to further the political goals of the working class with no repercussions?
Yes, the CPC is a working class party with a hair over 100 million members, and the system of democracy in China is distributed into local, regional, and the central government.
Oh, the government is separated into smaller local and regional governments and less than 10% of all Chinese citizens (there are 1.4 billion) are members of the CCP? Cool fun facts, I always love to learn, but you did not answer my question.
Does the government of the People’s Republic of China support and protect the legal right of the working class to control the means of production?
Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, and the working class is in control of the state. These are the basic requirements for socialism, at least in the Marxist understanding. I’m not sure what exactly you are referring to, a petite bourgeois cooperative quasi-socialism? If the working class directing the economy, as I already explained is the case in China, isn’t “controlling the means of production,” what exactly is your vision here? Because it certainly isn’t standard.
So… no protections, no real policy, no solid connection between the working class and power except for this notion that the government has the interests of the working class at heart. Is that right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_by_net_worth
Read through the above list and tell me these people must work for a living, that they could not live solely off of their assets. Why are these 607 people allowed to hoard such massive wealth and own so much if the working class controls the means of production and the economy? How is that good for anyone?
“ackchually”
I’m giving my POV as a Marxist that disagrees with being labled “right wing” and having Marxism boiled down to “opposing western nationalism.”
I’d say Marxist-Leninists are the ones getting called Tankie way more than everyday Marxists.
MLs are the “everyday Marxists,” globally. The number of MLs outweighs the rest. Further, MLMs, Trots, and other types get called tankie all the same.