Rich people love dictators, as long as it’s their chosen dictator.
I once worked with a guy from a wealthy family who had to escape Venezuela after Maduro took power. His family hated him, of course, because they’d become rich under the old system, but now they were in America, and he had to work a real job. He flat out told me that he felt like the best governmental system is when 5% of the population is wealthy, and 95% is dirt poor. Of course, he’d been one of the 5%.
had to escape Venezuela after Maduro took power
they’d become rich under the old system
… They didn’t flee from Chavez? What’s the timeline here?
Yeah, you’re probably right, it was probably Chavez. I worked with this guy years ago, I’m not sure of the timeline off the top of my head.
The point is that the rich had it made under the old system, and had to leave when it changed.
I also had some elderly neighbors from Venezuela, and they had relatives that would have loved to visit them, but they were afraid to leave because they were afraid their houses and businesses would be confiscated by the government while they were gone. That happened to one relative when she went to visit family that was living in Paris, so she just stayed in Paris.
their houses and businesses
Of course they worry about wealth redistribution, they’re wealthy. That’s why the capitalist class will do literally anything in their vast power to crush socialism.
“Dictatorship vs Democracy” is the new “Savage vs Civilized”. Words thrown around without explanation to signal friend and foe in the current ideological framework used to justify imperial conquest.
Biden literally framed it as “democracy vs autocracy.” As if the US has ever been anything close to a democracy.
It has danced around notions of being a democratic republic.
It’s okay that they think Maduro is a dictator. That’s not a crazy idea, to be fair, but I believe it’s a debatable idea, since parties in democracy may get overwhelming support, to the point, the leader of the State can accumulate enormous power. But I struggle to call it a dictatorship or an authoritarian regime, until they start changing laws so they can benefit from them directly without the stated support of the people by referendum. I honestly believe Maduro would have been out by now if it wasn’t for the antagonism of the USA and their pets.
It’s easier for me to call Bukele a dictator. He kind of bent the law, exercising his authoritarian faculties, so the authorities could allow him to have a license from his presidential duties in order to participate in presidential elections. How can anyone forget another symbolic fact? One time, in 2020, Bukele did enter the Legislative House guarded by soldiers and sat on the chair of the President of this power to make some speech. Dictators accommodate well enough to hegemonies since they will accept anything as long as they remain in power. They don’t defend sovereignty, they just defend their position.
In the case of my country, we really can’t be called a dictatorship, because reelection was banned by historical lessons. The USA plays a familiar game with us, they call it a narco state, instead. I wonder what’s the third option in the CIA manual.
Notice these same people don’t come out of the woodwork upon the mere utterance of “El Salvador” or “Bukele” like they do with “Venezuela” and “Maduro” even as Trump is deporting legal citizens to CECOT.
The words “dictatorship” and “authoritarianism” are clue words for followers of western publications to turn off their brains. They want to sort countries, parties, and leaders into neat little “good guys” and “bad guys” bins. These words allow them to do that with minimal effort, circumventing the need to understand the societies involved. Questioning that framing takes research effort and “sympathizing with authoritarians” so they never do it.
American news media talked about Bukele less because Bukele’s allies advertise more in US media.
Well that was a lot of credulous Lemmy users. I should spend less time debunking imperial talking points and more time selling these people bridges. I’m leaving money on the table.
Some of them even fired up their dusty old alt accounts to vote multiple times.
You’re right. I read this and I’m credulous. Come on down from the cross, we need the wood.
Why do you guys speak exclusively in vague cliches?
He is an authoritarien and the country went to shit.
Venezuela is not a nice place to live in.
Maduro is a corrupt dictator, trump aswell and the current opposition to maduro most likely will just be an authoritarian and fascist pupped goverment that will act in the USAs interest. So yeah multible things can be true at once, just because a nation is opposed to the american empire does not mean that it is automaticallly good.
Its quite sad to see that some terminally online leftist just automaticly replace siding with the imperialist systems that there born into( USA, EU Australia etc.) And just replace that with other imperial powers like russia and china.
Like why?? How about not bootlicking authoritarians?
Venezuela is not a nice place to live in.
Hmm, I wonder why? 🤔
Tell us what a non-authoritarian leader of Venezuela would look like to you and how they would resist the constant pressure and hostile actions of the US government, because it seems to me that leftist leaders are always denounced as authoritarian by North American and European based NGOs and governments.
The only way to avoid being labelled as authoritarian is to be friendly to the imperial core countries, i.e. being capitalist.
It’s so funny to see, when the alternative to Maduro is the Venezuelan equivalent of Yeltsin, someone hellbent on stripping their own country for parts and portraying that as “freedom”
👆If you don’t suppress the inevitable imperial-supported bourgeois counterinsurgencies, your socialist project will go the way of Allende’s Chile.
The question is whether government/people should get $60/barrel revenue before expenses, maybe $40/barrel after expenses, or $10/barrel but pump 5-10x as much, bribed to be loyal to US. Long term, obviously no corruption and high revenue/profit per barrel has its advantages. It’s not as though Exxon/Chevron can’t get access to Venezuela oil with fair deals, it’s that pretending corrupt puppets are the legitimate leaders provides extortion oil costs.
When you understand the hoops the US government is willing to jump through to get cheap foreign oil, you should understand that similar policies are used to deprive Americans of their fair share of resource revenue.
What a loser-ass mentality. It’s absolutely possible to remain just and free while being secure. Skill issue.
Skill issue, says the person who isn’t even trying to do it themselves
Point me to one single socialist revolution that wasn’t immediately attacked by capital. Just one. You can’t.
Name one single socialist revolution that didn’t start as a violent dictatorship. You can’t.
The Russian RSFR, the Paris Commune, The Bavarian soviet Republic, The Rhine Soviet Republic, The Hungarian Socialist Republic, socialist Cuba, socialist Vietnam, socialist Laos…
Turns out you don’t knwo what you’re talking about! All of them were immediately invaded, their opposition showered in material support and sanctioned to hell and back.
Lol stay stupid patriot
The USSR, PRC, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. all were massive expansions on democracy and working class control. Capitalists, landlords, fascists, monarchists, etc were (usually) violently oppressed, while the working classes were uplifted and society was democratized. From the point of view of the capitalists, they found themselves living in a violent dictatorship, for the working classes they found themselves finally escaping violent dictatorship.
exarcheia, and the Paris commune
Not even going to reply to your strawman. I said that it’s weak mentality to say “ends justify the means and sacrifice justice and freedom for the sake of fighting a foreign oppressor” - maybe that’s easier to understand? Weak people, weak minds, skill issue.
The .world beside the username never gets old!
Lol you said nothing of the sort and now you’re running away shouting random reddit bullshit for cover (what strawman? That doesnt even make sense) because you’re acutely aware but too proud to admit that your dumb Marvel-brained bullshit has no basis in reality. Who’s freedom? Who’s justice? You haven’t put five seconds of thought into this and you’re talking to people who have considered it for years or decades. You’re adorable.
It’s absolutely possible to remain just and free while being secure. Skill issue.
Maybe read it again?
Just and free while being secure: “authoritarian”
Unjust and unfree while being insecure and overrun by bears: Libertarian
So, which part is the just and free part that you mention, outside of the theory? As in, in detail, practical examples of those freedoms and justice, please. Besides the theoritscl “to each according to their needs, from each according to their possibilities” (sorry if misstranslated), what practical examples have been just and free throughout time.
The USSR, PRC, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. all were massive expansions on democracy and working class control. They were finally free and just for the working classes, and society became more about trying to satisfy everyone’s needs than endless private profits, with public ownership as the principle aspect of their economies.
Or you can be smart and just and have your cake and eat it too. See dozens of countries that prosper without sacrificing their freedoms and justice. You guys are just doomer losers simping for dictators because your minds are too small to imagine a real victory.
Do you always believe everything your enemies tell you? Are you allergic to critical thinking?
So name one
They’d probably have named imperial core “socialist” nordic states.
❤️Through the power of love ❤️
What are your real-world examples—bourgeois “democracies”? If it’s so easy, why hasn’t it happened?
The pure socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
The pure socialists had a vision of a new society that would create and be created by new people, a society so transformed in its fundaments as to leave little opportunity for wrongful acts, corruption, and criminal abuses of state power. There would be no bureaucracy or self-interested coteries, no ruthless conflicts or hurtful decisions. When the reality proves different and more difficult, some on the Left proceed to condemn the real thing and announce that they “feel betrayed” by this or that revolution.
The pure socialists see socialism as an ideal that was tarnished by communist venality, duplicity, and power cravings. The pure socialists oppose the Soviet model but offer little evidence to demonstrate that other paths could have been taken, that other models of socialism — not created from one’s imagination but developed through actual historical experience — could have taken hold and worked better. Was an open, pluralistic, democratic socialism actually possible at this historic juncture? The historical evidence would suggest it was not.
Decentralized parochial autonomy is the graveyard of insurgency — which may be one reason why there has never been a successful anarcho-syndicalist revolution. Ideally, it would be a fine thing to have only local, self-directed, worker participation, with minimal bureaucracy, police, and military. This probably would be the development of socialism, were socialism ever allowed to develop unhindered by counterrevolutionary subversion and attack.
One might recall how, in 1918-20, fourteen capitalist nations, including the United States, invaded Soviet Russia in a bloody but unsuccessful attempt to overthrow the revolutionary Bolshevik government.
Chavez in his first few months/year of being in office would be a good example of a non-authoritarian in that role.
My problem with Maduro and many of those in the post early days of Chavez taking over is that far too many seem to have a tremendous amount of money that they cannot explain how they came across legally. Executives at PVDSA, the state run petroleum company, seem to be extremely vulnerable to this corruption.
You can make the case that dictatorships/authoritarian structures are needed to protect a socialist revolution, which Im not sure I entirely agree with, without supporting the theft of state resources by people in the government.
Wasn’t a US-backed military coup against Chavez attempted in the early period? It was defeated by the people and soldiers who were loyal to Chavez, but that might’ve had an rffect
This is a vicious cycle of falling back to dictatorship to avoid imperialism, or some of it.
A) The country opens up and holds free elections, leading to an American puppet winning and the country turning into a vassal state at best, a glorified colony at worst.
B) The country turns into a dictatorship to limit foreign influence and fight back against imperialism, becoming a similarly terrible place to live, but at least without giving anything to the empire. Also note that as time passes, it’s quite likely that the dictatorship will forget why it was even created, i.e. it will no longer be about rejecting imperialism.
There are often the only two realistic scenarios for countries targetted by the American Empire. Both are bad and I’m not sure I feel like analyzing which one is slightly less bad for the average person.
Tell us what a non-authoritarian leader of Venezuela would look like
Presumably they would look not-authoritarian, a description that doesn’t fit Maduro at all.
It could well be that, in the face of US policy regarding Venezuela, only an Authoritarian could hold onto the country. That still doesn’t make Maduro not an Authoritarian.
it seems to me that leftist leaders are always denounced as authoritarian by North American and European based NGOs and governments.
That’s a fair observation but, again, that doesn’t mean they are wrong when they say it about Maduro. Maduro is referred to as dictator by Human Rights Watch, the Organization of American States, and other human rights organizations, including some inside Venezuela.
Maduro is a dictator. It’s largely the fault of the US that Venezuela has a dictator. If the US succeeds in ousting Maduro, it will almost certainly replace him with an even worse Dictator. All of that can be true with no contradictions.
You gave no examples of Maduro “being an authoritarian,” and then cited more western NGOs. Of course the empire trying to manufacture consent to coup Venezuela would do that, they did it to Allende too. Repeating “Maduro is a dictator” like a mantra isn’t a substitute for explaining how and why that’s true, and citing western NGOs is just parroting what the empire wants you to.
Presumably they would look not-authoritarian
And what does that even look like? Something like Allende, I’m guessing.
Human Rights Watch
The liberal Zionist western propaganda outlet?
Human Rights Watch is “zionist” now? Lmao
Genuine question since I am not knowledgable about this: could you expand on how HRW is Zionist? Wikipedia notes that HRW has been criticised for being overly biased against Israel, and I read through a rather awful article on Sapir (which appears to be quite unapologetically Zionist) which indeed makes this claim. Is there evidence to the contrary?
And also cited OAS lmao!
The country went to shit before Chavez died as a result of many backing away from trade as a result of US demands as well as a slew of bad policy choices that turned them from a food exporting nation to one that imported food which collapsed the economy. Chavez and Maduro instituted price controls which have harmed the agricultural economy significantly which further harmed things.
That being said while their results were bad their intentions were good which is not going to be true of whatever puppet government the USA would install.
The results are usually bad when you don’t kowtow to the imperial core, but they’re also likely to be even worse for the majority of people if you do. That’s why monopoly capitalism has to be fought, if we ever want better outcomes to even be possible.
The fact is price controls are terrible policy and have never worked because we cannot predict the future needs of the market. Unless we magically get vastly better AI that runs the entire economy it is unlikely price controls will ever work so when Chavez instituted them it lead to a collapse of the agriculture sector leading to hunger issues.
Some of the economic problems were self created because many leftists have zero formal economic backgrounds and thus have trouble separating reasons for factual historical failures of specific leftist policies, like price controls or rent control being extremely problematic historically speaking, vs what is merely capitalist propaganda eg “capitalism is the only system that works” which isn’t true historically speaking.
Some of the economic problems were self created because many leftists have zero formal economic backgrounds
That may well be, but at the same time, most economists in the world have a garbage education in neoclassical economics and carry neoliberal brain worms.
The system was created and developed by rich folks to ensure that rich folks continued to accumulate more and more wealth. Economists seem to me to be just working backwards from that point without ever mentioning it.
We had a middle class when taxes on the wealthy were 50-90 percent. Unless we bring that back, the ‘economy’ is bullshit.
Referring to the USA of course.
But Venezuela’s economy collapse was caused mainly by US foreign policy. It may have been exacerbated by Maduro’s or Chavez’s policy, but the US was the cause.
We had a middle class when taxes on the wealthy were 50-90 percent. Unless we bring that back, the ‘economy’ is bullshit.
If you were white and male it was a good deal for one generation. That was an anomalous moment in world history that will never come again. The US was the only major power in the world that didn’t have its productive capacity blown to smithereens in WWII, unions were comparatively strong, and the USSR posed a serious ideological threat to capitalism which caused the bourgeoisie to give (temporary) concessions.
Yes, of course there was systemic racism and women couldn’t even have personal checking accounts without approval from a male….
I’m just saying that unless taxes go up to 90% on folks making over a couple million dollars a year then we’ll never get there again.
What do you think your reply means?
Do you think Conoco-Phillips was involved with Venezuela’s collapse?
I have nothing to directly point my finger at but I wouldn’tbe surprised if most major US energy companies played a role to some degree.
Under Maduro, Venezuelan communes and participatory democracy is flourishing. In addition, massive social programs have been implemented, focusing on housing, food security, and poverty eradication. I’m not sure on what basis you distrust him so much, Venezuela is building socialism under Maduro from the bottom-up, and Maduro is doing his part from the top.
Venezuela is a developing country, that is developing despite the US Empire’s best efforts. It is regularly improving, which is why the working classes support Maduro.
Russia isn’t imperialist, it has no colonies nor neocolonies, and a tiny amount of global financial capital. China isn’t imperialist either, it’s a socialist country wituout any financial domination of the state or economy. There’s no mechanisms pushing for imperialism within China, and this manifests in regular south-south trade leading to development of global south countries when trading with China, unlike the unequal exchange of trade with the west where the west charges monopoly prices for tech and places compradors in power to prevent industrial development.
Multiple things are true, correct. This isn’t the grand own you think it is, though. You’re passively parroting imperialist narratives.
Venezuelan communes and participatory democracy is flourishing. In addition, massive social programs have been implemented, focusing on housing, food security, and poverty eradication
I think this really needs to be stressed. Venezuela is a country building Socialism. Maduro and the PSUV is in power because of a genuinely incredible mass movement of communes, neighborhood committees, and other organs of grassroots democracy. This is qualitatively different from say, any of the Gulf oil monarchies
I highly recommend the books Building The Commune: Radical Democracy in Venezuela, and Commune or Nothing: Venezuela’s Communal Movement and Its Socialist Project, for a look at these aspects of Venezuelan politics, because it’s often papered over in discussions about the country.
Absolutely. Venezuela is genuinely what self-described demsocs want, the Empire just doesn’t care and will kill you regardless of how procedural and by international law your socialism is.
Man i remember when I was a “damn, the US and it’s enemies are both evil” guy. I thought i was done thinking about the world
Most of us have been at that stage, especially if we grew up in the west. I certainly was, no doubt about that. I try to do my best to correct that former behavior now that I know better. Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing” remains critical reading.
And we thought we were so enlightened. This is the last layer of the imperial core propaganda onion: that the “other side” is no better, which leads to apathy and disengagement.
Russia isn’t imperialist, it has no colonies nor neocolonies
Yeah, tell that to Crimea, the Donbas, or even Siberia or the puppet states like Belarus, Georgia and Moldova. Russian neo-colonialism is all over Africa.
China isn’t imperialist either, it’s a socialist country wituout any financial domination of the state or economy.
China is a kinder imperialist, but they are using largely the same playbook that the west used in Africa, including debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty and regulation, and undermining labor movements.
They also have a mix of socialism and capitalism, sometimes getting the best of both, and sometimes the worst. They definitely dominate the state economy through control of banking and the use of capital controls to direct funding to national priorities. The current real estate crisis and “ghost cities” are a pretty obvious example.
Crimea and the people of the Donbass region both voted to join Russia. In fact, the Donetsk and Luhanks People’s Republics, the ones being ethnically cleansed by the far-right Banderites in Kiev that have been in power since the 2014 western-backed Euromaidan coup, specifically requested assistance from Russia in 2022. Belarus and Georgia having close economic ties is not the same as imperialism. You also have no evidence of neocolonialism, trade with Russia is closer to south-south trade as it doesn’t have a monopoly on the goods it exports like gas and nuclear power plants, and as such African countries are developing more via trade with Russia and China while being underdeveloped by the west.
China is a socialist country. They have markets, but that doesn’t mean they have a “mix” of capitalism and socialism. Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy, and the state is under the control of the working classes. There is no “real estate crisis,” housing prices were kept low and no longer able to be used as an investment vehicle. The “ghost cities” are smart urban development, and most are habited after being developed. This kind of thinking ahead is possible because of socialism.
You also have no evidence of “debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty,” or “undermining labor movements.” China regularly forgives loans, doesn’t requore privatization of publicly owned industry or force austerity like the IMF does, and has been doing huge work in developing and building up the global south with more south-south trade.
What’s going on here is it’s absolutely unacceptable for you to admit that the west is the worst, by far, out of that trio. China is genuinely a progressive state with mass popular support internally and internationally, governed by a communist party. Russia is seeing rising support for socialism internally, and is higher up on the list of candidates for new socialist countried because of it. The west is the indisuputed world empire, helmed by the US, and this empire is projecting hard onto other countries as it exports genocide and plunders the world on its way out.
You also have no evidence of “debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty,” or “undermining labor movements.”
Their evidence is that the TV told them this many times over years, enough times that it’s true.
Of course, they have people dedicated to finding evidence and distorting it to present pro-imperial narratives, and fund them well.
including debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty and regulation, and undermining labor movements.
Notice how you have these facts in your brain that you’re sure are true but can’t actually identify why you think they’re true? That’s what being propagandized feels like.
Russia isn’t imperialist, it has no colonies nor neocolonies
Yeah, tell that to Crimea, the Donbas
Are you kidding me? The people in Crimea and the Donbas wanted to join Russia, to protect them from Ukraine, which had been killing them since 2014.
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- Internationalist 360°, 2022–2024: History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
China is a kinder imperialist, but they are using largely the same playbook that the west used in Africa, including debt-trap diplomacy, undermining local sovereignty and regulation, and undermining labor movements.
The Atlantic, 2021: The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth
What is China doing to undermine local sovereignty or labor movements in Africa?
The current real estate crisis
What “current” real estate crisis? The Chinese state intentionally popped the real estate bubble over a year ago, making the capitalists eat their losses.
- Reuters: China Evergrande ordered to liquidate in landmark moment for crisis-hit sector
- Bloomberg: China Reiterates Stance That Homes Are Not for Speculation
- CNBC: China’s housing minister says real estate developers must go bankrupt if necessary
“We will scale up the building and supply of government-subsidized housing and improve the basic systems for commodity housing to meet people’s essential need for a home to live in and their different demands for better housing,” an English-language version of the report said.
Compare that to Obama, who bailed out the private banks at the expense of people with home mortgages, banks that knowingly wrote those bad mortgages. Michael Hudson, 2023: Why the Bank Crisis isn’t Over
The financial sector is the core of Democratic Party support, and the party leadership is loyal to its supporters. As President Obama told the bankers who worried that he might follow through on his campaign promises to write down mortgage debts to realistic market valuations in order to enable exploited junk-mortgage clients to remain in their homes, “I’m the only one between you [the bankers visiting the White House] and the mob with the pitchforks,” that is, his characterization of voters who believed his “hope and change” patter talk.
“ghost cities” are a pretty obvious example.
Reuters, 2015: The myth of China’s ghost cities
Wherever you’re getting your information from, it’s dogshit.
I see you have your cut and paste propaganda all ready to go there.
The people in Crimea and the Donbas wanted to join Russia, to protect them from Ukraine,
Sounds an awful lot like claiming Iraqis wanted the US to overthrow Sadam and would welcome it with open arms. It worked out about the same too, except for the Russian military embarrassing themselves. Even taken at face value, all you are doing is justifying the imperialism, not showing it doesn’t exist.
China is the biggest debt holder nation in the world. Zambia just had to default on loans for infrastructure that largely served Chinese needs, and Kenya and Ethiopia are not far behind. Meanwhile, the DRC is falling into debt paying for infrastructure to ship Copper and Cobalt to Chinese. China has not been as abusive as the west was, but they aren’t that much better either. It’s still the same tactics.
New Labor Forum: Chinese Investments in Africa: Twenty-First Century Colonialism?
“Cut and paste propaganda” lol you mean sources? You’re just upset that they came prepared because you’ve got jack shit
I see you have your cut and paste propaganda all ready to go there.
Oh yeah, famous Chinese propaganda outlet: The Atlantic.
Fuck off; you’re just using the word “propaganda” to mean "anything I disagree with. There is nothing that anyone could say to you to disagree that you wouldn’t immediately say “that’s propaganda and therefore wrong!” to.
It worked out about the same too
Are you stupid? Iraq immediately erupted into long term insurgency, a thing that categorically did not happen in Crimea or Donbas.
There is still a significant pro Ukrainian resistance operating in both Crimea and Donbas. Russian has had to resort to brutal tactics to suppress them, but has still not been entirely successful. Many of the resisters retreated to fight with the rest of Ukraine, and they are certainly giving Russia a fight. In any case, it’s still imperialism.
Yeah? Where did you hear this?
Evidence for that? Ukraine government - the same who sold the Ghost of Kiev, Russia collecting Ukrainian children like Pokemon, the Martyrs of Snake Island, the secessionists shelling themselves, Russia shelling itself, russian troops shelling themselves, russian timetravel technology deployed in Bucha and much more.
Is getting your intelligence insulted your kink or something?
If you don’t like cut and paste responses, stop having cut and paste thoughts.
Russia isn’t imperialist
Why do you think they’re invading Ukraine. Sparkles and rainbows?
The general Marxist take is that when Yanukovych was offered an IMF loan that required austerity policies and privatization of safety nets, and a Russian loan that did not come with the same restrictions, he went with the Russian loan and was couped for it, including a western-supported Banderite false-flag shooting. Following the western-supported coup, the areas in the Donbass region seceded, as they supported Yanukovych, are culturally and ethnically Russian, and were unhappy with the Banderites taking over the government under the cover of “democracy.” Said Banderites were also legally suppressing the Russian language in the Donbass region.
What ensued was a decade of fighting, 2 failed Minsk agreements that Kiev broke and admitted to never wanting to follow, and massive risk of NATO on Russia’s doorstep. The Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics requested Russian assistance, and Russia complied, sparking the next stage of the war.
Russia purely wants the Donbass region and NATO neutrality. They want the Donbass region not out of the kindness of their hearts, nor for plunder or further expansion, but because it’s a land bridge straight to Russia, the same route the Nazis took in World War II. NATO was building up because the West uses their millitary to threaten countries into opening up their economies to foreign plunder (like what’s happening right now in Venezuela), a tradition employed since NATO was founded, destroyed Yugoslavia and Libya, etc.
This is the common Marxist take, shared largely by PSL’s statement and FRSO’s statement. Essentially, the war is tragic, should end as quickly as possible, and was provoked by the west.
Nato is not a risk to russia, and never has been. Nato is a defensive alliance. The only way they’re a risk is if russia plans to attack them first. Anyone suggesting that nato provoked it is on something
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
Yeah, like pretending genociding Ukrainianes is because of nato
Projecting the actual ethnic cleansing done by the Ukranian coup government onto the Russians who stopped it
Many such cases!
Lol fictional genocide, thanks for making my point for me beautifully
NATO is the millitary alliance of the world’s imperialist powers. This group of countries uses this alliance to prevent the global south from going against it and liberating themselved from foreign plunder via overwhelming financial domination. The way imperialism tends to work in the modern day is countries like the US, France, Germany, UK, etc expropriate vast wealth from countries in the global south, similar to how capitalists steal value created by the working class.
NATO is as “defensive” as the Iron Dome in Israel. These countries export genocide and terrorism on the third world, expropriate huge sums of wealth, and then “defend” against anyone that pushes back against that.
Yeah man ask Libya and Yugoslavia how defended they feel
Nato is a defensive alliance just like cops are there to help you
NATO expansion:
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
NATO in general:- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
Invading / starting a war is not the same thing as imperialism.
Invading for territory gain is absolutely synonymous with imperialistic tendencies
The Marxist definition of imperialism is more specific than just “big country invade small country”.
In, Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism Lenin lays out five aspects of what makes Imperialism:
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the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life;
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the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy;
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the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance;
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the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and
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the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.
The question of “Is Russia Imperialist” isn’t a moral one, it’s a technical one. So if Russia were do to something that we all agree is morally reprehensible, that’s a separate concern from whether Russia is imperialist.
The technicality revolves around whether Russia has developed an oligarchy of Financial Capital, such that its invasion of Ukraine or other flexes of its influence, perpetuates the export of Russian finance capital around the world.
As it stands now, I don’t think that’s currently the case, but with Marxism being a dialectal philosophy, I do wonder if this war will accelerate that merging of Bank and industrial capital that Lenin discusses. It’s a Bourgeois states, and there’s financial capital in there somewhere that absolutely has an interest in forming a Russian imperialism.
So when people say “Russia isn’t Imperialist”, this is what’s being referred to. You can take it or leave it, but it’s worth getting into the weeds a bit, so we aren’t all talking passed each other
Marxist does not get to exclusively define what imperialism is. A more standard definition is far more reasonable to use. However, your comment is very informative to me, I’m glad you took the time to write this out
Marxist does not get to exclusively define what imperialism is
Marxism isn’t the only analytical lens out there, no. But the people you’re arguing with are working with that definition, which is why I took the time to clarify. Thank you for appreciating my effort post though lol
“A more standard definition” than the one that’s been in use for over a hundred years and accurately describes the dynamic in question? The definition liberals use is both new and entirely vibes-based. It is useless for anything but bringing geopolitical conversations to a screeching halt with murky equivocations. The Marxist definition exists to clarify, while the liberal definition exists to obscure. It’s the “socialism is when the government does stuff” of international relations.
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A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square.
Ok but the person above just denied that a square was a rectangle
Look at those goalposts fly
No goalposts have moved dude
It literally is? They are expanding power over a foreign nation via military means. That’s basically the definition of imperialism.
You’re talking about simple conquest. By that definition any offensive side in a war is imperialist, which is nonsensical as that means nearly every war in human history involved at least one “imperialist” power.
Imperialism is system of establishing and maintaining hegemony over large areas for the benefit of an elite (capital in modern times, patricians in ancient times, etc) within a metropole (probably too simple of a definition but it works). The Romans were an empire not just because they had an emperor and not because they conquered lands, but because they controlled lands from Spain to Syria and wealth flowed from those lands into Rome.
171·1 day agoThe Soviet Union expanded their power over Germany via military means. WW2 was simply an inter-imperialist war.
You jest but this is genuinely what libs believe
It was an inter-imperialist war except on the eastern front, where it was a war to destroy communism. The capitalist Allies and the USSR were an alliance of convenience, which is why the West made the USSR its enemy the moment the war ended.
Edie is being sarcastic, btw.
The imperialist D-Day landings
Its quite sad to see that some terminally online leftist just automaticly replace siding with the imperialist systems that there born into
That’s not what we’re doing; that’s what intellectually incurious imperial core labor aristocrats think we’re doing.
How about not bootlicking authoritarians?
Yes he’s certainly an authoritarian. Authoritarian doesn’t automatically mean bad…there’s such a thing as the concept of a benevolent dictator.
What evidence do you have that “the country went to shit” or “Venezuela is not a nice place to live in” or that he’s a “corrupt dictator”?
This original post, presumably, attempts to scratch slightly beneath the surface of what we hear on the news and suggest that your above statements only apply to a certain “deserving” class.
I don’t actually know a lot about Venezuela, and I’m asking these questions in earnest. I started to ask questions a lot earlier, but certainly looking into Maria Machado (this years Nobel Peace Prize winner) made some alarm bells go off. Could it be that the narrative is controlled by Machado and her neoliberal/right wing ilk, and she actually represents a large minority class of people that was purged/displaced in Venezuela?
I’m still investigating.
Where do we get the idea that Maduro is an authoritarian dictator? We get it from what our governments say, our corporate media say, and our NGOs (which are funded by our governments & corporations) say. These are the very same governments & corporations that want to vassalize Venezuela and pillage its resources. They are—all day, every day—working to manufacture our consent, or if not consent then at least acquiescence.
We also get it from Maduro and the rest of the Chavanistas: his party rules by supreme power and decree. The way his party allocates power as a matter of internal affairs, may be another story.
Please, let’s not talk in absolutes. This notion that any and all narratives that you deem negative are part of a grand conspiracy just isn’t true.
I implied in my original reply that I believe Maduro may be benevolent, along the lines of Castro. I don’t really have a problem with dictators…the problem with dictators is they’re usually fascists. That isn’t the case in Venezuela.
his party rules by supreme power and decree.
Again, how do you know this, and why are you so certain that this is a fair characterization? Have you read or listened to Maduro’s speeches or read Chavismo literature? Did you ask working class Venezuelans they consider these “decrees” to be extra-legal are or whether they are popular among them? Or did it come from Five Eyes sources, their telling of events?
the problem with dictators is they’re usually fascists.
In the modern era, dictators dictate with the consent of the bourgeoisie. And yes, that is fascism. In stark contrast, the Maduro government is a thorn in the side of both the indigenous bourgeoisie and the foreign imperialist bourgeoisie.
Yes I have listened to his speeches and read his lefislation…that’s why I’m saying what I’m saying.
You’re citisizing things I didn’t say…I know Maduro is popular there. I don’t know how else to say it: I believe he has the best interests of the working class in mind.
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There’s a concept true. Just not an example. Technically it’s possible for sub atomic particles in deep space to randomly coaless as a Ruben sandwich. But you’re far more likely to see the evaporation of a super massive black hole.
Power corrupts. And sometimes there really is no point to arguing which shitty person is slightly less shitty than the other shitty person. The only true answer is not play, and that there shouldn’t be such positions of power. Anything else is calvinball.
You’ll notice that there are no real arguments that he isn’t a authoritarian/dictator. Just justification that certain people identify with him, so it’s okay. Or that because one cringe group of privileged people criticize him. All criticism against him is from similar cringe groups of people. The meme in a nutshell. A non sequitur.
Maduro absolutely is an authoritarian. As is Trump. I don’t agree with either one of them. But Trump absolutely means to fuck all the way off when it comes to continuing to meddle in South America. Argentina and Venezuela have enough problems of their own. They don’t need ours.
Power corrupts.
A meaningless platitude; as baseless as saying that lightning never strikes the same place twice. Liberals just think it’s true because they’ve created a system where people who were already corrupt gain power.
The only true answer is not play,
Yeah man, people should just “not play” real life. Fuck me, Western liberals really are the most privileged fuckers: all just a game to them.
You’ll notice that there are no real arguments that he isn’t a authoritarian/dictator.
???.
Other than the arguments people are making that he was democratically elected. Those are objectively arguments, regardless of your feelings on them.
Maduro absolutely is an authoritarian
Name one country that is oppositional to the West that you don’t “consider” authoritarian.
Your position is there has never been a benevolent leader? Power corrupts universally and equally? That’s nuts, quite frankly.
It’s absurd to suggest that Trump and Maduro are equivalent. They’re not equal in a single way, even if you believe they’re both bad.
Nope. This is the problem I expected and received in spades. Saying that people are corrupt or easily corruptible. Is not saying equally corrupt. Pointing out that two individuals have behaved in authoritarian ways. Is not saying they’re equally authoritarian. Hell, I even called out Trump at the end. Mentioning leaving Maduro alone. Basically defending Maduro against him. But it was never what was actually said. It was what people needed to be said in their minds to defend people they identify with. All very entertaining. Like trying to have any sort of meaningful discussion with liberals.
“Calling out Trump” is clearly a rhetorical tactic to distract from your incorrect assessment of Maduro. It should be noted that you’re aligned with Trump when you say that, and it should give you pause.
You don’t seem to remember your own comment. You used the most extreme straw man, adorned with sarcasm, to asses Maduro…there was no reality in your reply.
Meh, the fact that you think you’re talking to liberals is pretty amusing. Why defend an argument when you can attack the messenger, right?
It isn’t groundbreaking to say that people can be corrupt to different degrees. What you failed to do is provide any meaningful explanation for why you believe Maduro to be corrupt, authoritarian, a dictator, etc. We gave ample evidence pointing to his popular support, the robust system of democracy in Venezuela, the rising commune movement and participatory economy, etc, while you called us bad-faith.
To me, it looks like you think yourself above having to back up your claims and as outside of the conversation looking in, rather than actually communicating with us. This is compounded by your commenting both here and on the MWoG threads, a known cryptofash gathering spot. Is this behavior of yours “good faith” in your eyes?
What makes Maduro an dictator? He’s popularly supported, was democratically elected, and is setting up participatory systems in the economy. I can agree that he’s “authoritarian” against capitalists and fascists, but that’s absolutely a good use of authority.
Secondly, there’s no evidence to the notion that “power corrupts,” just correlation. In systems like capitalism, corrupt leaders are pushed upwards because that’s profitable, it wasn’t the power that corrupted them but a system that selects for corruption.
Tell the cryptofash on MeanwhileOnGrad that they’re a hoot, btw.
Authoritarian is when you don’t capitulate to the imperial core’s will, and the less you capitulate the more authoritarian you are. If you’re genuinely democratic then you need a color revolution for sure, because the demos doesn’t want to be vassalized by imperialists.
Bad faith responses from both of you. Bravo!
As opposed to your “no response”. You’ve got nothing because you know they’re right
I mean, we try to be patient but there’s a limit. You regurgitate imperial core hegemonic “common sense,” believing that you don’t need to back any of it up with evidence because it is knownit is knownit is known, while we bring bookshelves of evidence & arguments for our positions, which you won’t engage with.
I don’t think you deserve anything else, tbh
I was absolutely good-faith. I don’t agree with describing Maduro as a dictator, and I gave my reasoning. Are you referring to the bit at the end, where GrammarPolice made a couple of posts on MWoG that you commented on? I think it’s fair to call that out.
- They have a “tankie”-punching community, but we’re the brigaders?
- That comm is way more censorious than we’ve ever been. Wrongthink is an instant permaban.
Bad faith is when you put an ounce of critical thinking towards the thought-terminating cliches that a bunch of rich pedophiles use to demonize anyone who resists their compulsive desire to own the world and everyone in it.
It’s the same as the Cubans who fled to the US because of how evil Castro was. I wonder how many of them were wealthy class enemies of the Cuban revolution who stood to lose their wealth under Castro’s government.
Conservatives do love self-owning with the anti-Castro rhetoric
Lmao actual fucking Kirk
The Communists took away all my family’s hard-earned slaves
Well, the friends are right, because he is a dictator.
Which is still better than whatever USA has in store for Venezuela.
And which absolutely doesn’t justify slaughtering Venezuelan civilians.
Yeah the post screams “your dictatorship is bad so we’ll stick with our dictator.”
ANTICONQUISTA is an anti-imperialist media collective. Our content is produced by and for the Latin American and Caribbean Diaspora.
We are dedicated to exposing and fighting the capitalist-imperialist system, the root cause of our displacement.
We provide analysis of the region’s current events and history from a communist, anti-imperialist, Third Worldist, pro-Indigenous, pro-Black, pro-LGBTQ+, proletarian feminist and pan-Latin American and Caribbean perspective. We produce articles, books, podcasts, videos and social media memes.
In our motherland, we provide financial support to revolutionary movements resisting capitalist-imperialist oppression.
Two things can be true at the same time. Maduro can be a dictator and the US can exerciser its military power illegally and attempt to intimidate and topple him.
Both can be true at the same time.
Both can be true at the same time.
They can also not be, brainiac. Despite what Redditors may think, vagueposting is not an argument.
Well that was aggressive. You seem very excited about this subject, maybe you should calm down.
There was nothing “vague” about my statement. Maduro is a dictator and the US is violating international law going after him.
You seem very excited about this subject, maybe you should calm down.
“You are an emotional soyjack and I am a rational chad.”
Redditors, man.
Two comments and not a single coherent argument besides name calling.
I can see redditors live rent free in your head. Is there some kind of trauma they inflicted which you can’t move past?
It’s not at all a grand statement to say “US bad, but enemy of US also bad.” All this does is cede legitimacy to the US Empire against its enemies, manufacturing consent during their aggression. It doesn’t matter if you finger wag the US, by legitimizing their claims against their enemies, you legitimize their assault.
This is even further compounded by your lack of explanation of how a democratically elected and popularly supported president is a dictator. This is the same playbook they used against Allende.
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Incredibly telling of yourself that you link pro-imperialist media like NPR and the Guardian as though they have any legitimacy when it comes to accurately portraying socialist leaders. I’ve already seen the western consent manufacturing, this isn’t new to me, and I find it as credible as Saddam’s WMD.
As a latino…I am tired of USA citizens whitesplaining me shit.
Guy is a dictator.
Trump should still fuck off from latinoamerica but Maduro is a dictator.
Are you Venezuelan?
Want to explain?
These are rich upper class white skinned gusanos who are claiming Maduro is a dictator so they can have the US overthrow the government and resume their ownership class status. They want to privatize all the natural resources and live off the profit in Miami.
Figured it was going be something in those regards. Thanks for the information.
I hope if that happens that ICE rounds them all up. They might remember that the USA will take their resources with composition.
Nah, this is a reactionary take no different from liberals gleefully hoping Palestinians that protested the 2024 elections get hounded by ICE.
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‘people I disagree with are bots.’
beep boop I guess
They look like the press kit for one of those Million Dollar Skank-off romance-game-shows. I assume Thursdays at 9, next day on Paramount Plus?
Yeah, I have a friend who lives in Venezuela, he and his family can barely afford to eat, and I mean barely. Beans everyday and nothing else for years. I tried to send him some computer parts and it was going to be over 5 grand to send them, so I couldn’t afford that, but his pc was genuinely very low end 5 years ago and I know he hasn’t been able to upgrade, especially with all the money going to his 9 other family members living in the 1 bedroom apartment.
But whatever lies you have to tell yourself to sleep at night buddy.
I think most people are indeed agreeing that Venezuela is facing financial hardship, but not because of Maduro, but mainly due to the sanctions by western govts.
Venezuela is a small country and the US is a large and influential one. So such sanctions are going to hurt Venezuela.
Can I ask a question to get the idea across?
We have heard news that Palestinians have faced food shortages and there was even famine warning.Do you see it as a failure of their leadership or that of Israel blocking food and aid to the place, while isolating and attacking them?
If it is the latter, then wouldn’t Venezuela be in the same position but relatively more favorable?
I think that is the view that many in the thread have.Palestine and Venezuela are not even remotely similar, while both have been screwed over by US stupidity, they are so vastly different in circumstance I personally find comparisons to be a little silly.
Venezuela is well known to have screwed up its own economy in previous leadership, while spurred from US sanctions and interference it was ultimately their own actions that caused their economic collapse. Maduro has not helped with these issues and has only helped expand these problems. Though not nearly as problematic as previous leaders.
And while I personally get the hate Venezuela has towards the US, Jesus they are playing with fire. The US is out for blood, and will likely flatten the country just because they can, its going to be quite bad, and very sad.
At the point that US starts flattening Venezuela, killing hundreds a day and planning to rebuild it, then that would be a more fair comparison.
If you think that is because of Maduro and not decades of being illegally sanctioned and blockaded by their northern neighbor then I have a bridge to sell you.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
So what you’re saying is, it’s Venezuela’s fault for being sanctioned and embargoed? Is it Cuba’s fault? Was it Vietnam’s fault for being attacked by the US? Is it a slave’s fault for revolting when the slaver whips them back down?
We are talking about a modern dictator and the state of Venezuela today. Get your head out yo ass.
You’re making the argument that Venezuela is poor not because of sanctions and embargos, but personal choices by a democratically elected leader that has promoted and carried out poverty alleviation campaigns and pushed for food security through large social programs.
This is fucking medieval peasant level thinking: “Venezuelas economy is bad because Madura doesn’t have the mandate of heaven!”
???
Which part are you having trouble with?
We’re talking about imperial violence and the poverty it causes. Stop being a defensive child and answer the question. When a colony throws off it’s chains, whose fault is it when the colonizer retaliates?
First comment: Responded within five minutes
Second comment: 1 hour later and nowhere to be seen
I have a life pal
If you want to get banned just start insulting people like the op.
additionally feel free to let your fashy friends know that I’m on payroll for both Putin AND Xi for my sfw online posting activities. I also collect checks from George Soros for in-person work that upsets conservatives.
it’s important to have multiple income streams 💅
I’ve started tagging every single one i see. I should write them all down lol
The insatiable fascist urge to make lists of leftists
That’s great, but now that you’re here go ahead and answer the question. When a colonized country throws off it’s chains, whose fault is it when the colonizer retaliates?
no u
Maybe that’s cuz he IS a fucking dictator?
Of course, the US imperial media that lied to me 386231757 times would never lie to me a 386231758th time! Especially not when oil is involved!🤡
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My opinion that I received from the US media and US consent manufacturing must be the correct one and everyone else is a bot. You’re literally repeating CIA propaganda. Have fun in your circlejerking community in sh.itsjust.nazis where you gossip about social media posts like a fucking loser.
Ahh yes, because yours is also correct…
Check your irony buddy
You say, doing the work of the CIA and demonizing socialists
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Socialists who fight fascists are the real fascists. Only people who call themselves socialists while repeating war department propaganda as the US blows up fishermen every day are the real socialists.
Get a grip lmao
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You would call Castro Batista-esque, and Machado socialist. Words don’t mean shit to you and that’s why you can’t accomplish anything
Very funny from someone demonizing socialists, complaining of left-wing bias and dismissing sources that support left-wing views, and defended slur usage, even calling me an “idealist” for saying we shouldn’t use slurs. You can think yourself a socialist, but your actions are consistently against socialists and socialism.
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You’re fully capable of engaging in good-faith, you deliberately choose to attack leftists and fedjacket.
If you look what happened since 2013 when he took over. He is a dictator though. Trump is actually following his playbook, but in a lighter since. Some examples…
Electoral Fraud and Illegitimate Power
Maduro’s grip on power relies fundamentally on electoral manipulation. In the July 28, 2024 presidential election, Venezuela’s National Electoral Council (CNE)—controlled by Maduro loyalists—declared he won with 51.2% of the vote despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The opposition collected 83.5% of voting tally sheets showing their candidate, Edmundo González Urrutia, actually won with approximately 67% of votes compared to Maduro’s 30%. The CNE refused to release disaggregated results or conduct post-election audits, and its website remains inactive. International observers, including the Carter Center and Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, documented widespread fraud throughout the electoral process. The government disqualified opposition candidate María Corina Machado, obstructed voter registration for millions, imposed restrictions on opposition poll watchers, and used state resources during campaigns. The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights concluded it cannot recognize Maduro’s re-election as democratically legitimate due to the “severe disruption to Venezuela’s constitutional order”.
Following the contested 2024 election, Maduro launched “Operation Tun Tun” (Operación Tun Tun), a brutal crackdown described by experts as “state terrorism”. Authorities conducted door-to-door raids to detain anyone with suspected opposition ties, creating what human rights groups call a “climate of terror” intended to terrify Venezuelans into submission.According to official figures, over 2,000 people were arrested in the first month after the election, including at least 129 children. As of July 2025, 853 political prisoners remain behind bars. These detentions are characterized by systematic torture, enforced disappearances, and arbitrary detention without warrants. Victims reported beatings, electric shocks, suffocation, and confinement in dark, overcrowded cells. Amnesty International documented that at least 198 children have been subjected to unfair detention, torture, and abuse, with four months passing before many saw their families.A 2024 UN fact-finding mission report concluded there are “reasonable grounds to believe that the crime of persecution on political grounds has been committed”. Between 2015 and 2017 alone, Venezuelan security forces carried out 8,292 extrajudicial executions, with 22% of all homicides in one year committed by state forces. The UN mission has documented that Venezuela’s intelligence agencies have used sexual and gender-based violence to torture detainees since at least 2014.
I know most of accounts in some instances automatically will upvote anything that goes with their PV and downvote the opposite (i.e. .ml and the meme in this post). It’s disappointing that for years the up/downvote rhetoric has been for what really adds to the conversation and I find this reply more according to the reality from the PV of someone that is not Venezuelan but has roots and friends there but most importantly that we’re not part of the meme, just average people that don’t wish for anyone what means to live there as the average or below. I do remember when I was a child and had the joy of go to Venezuela and to have fun on vacations, now I it’s not joy but the feeling of accomplish humanitarian labor and donations to average and poor Venezuelans that at first supported the socialism that Chávez sold them and later Maduro, Cabello and others continue in a nonsense of left political system. If someone downvote replies citing sources from the Venezuelan diaspora, let me remind you that that diaspora is not 100% from the people of this post meme but real Venezuelans that have left/lost almost everything because of really bad politics and actions of Chávez, Maduro and others that surprise: the last presidential election didn’t got official acts published.
described by experts as “state terrorism”.
“Experts” from the imperial core.
creating what human rights groups call a “climate of terror
Imperial core human rights groups. “Always the same map” human rights groups. Citations Needed podcast: The Human Rights Concern Troll Industrial Complex
intended to terrify Venezuelans into submission.
Which Venezuelans? The poor or the wealthy? The working class or the capitalist class?
Maduro is a popularly supported leftist president that was elected democratically. Machado is a fascist that directly asked the US Empire to invade, she’s supported by the wealthy compradors in Venezuela while Maduro is supported by the working classes. The odds appear to be pretty damn high that Machado would have lost against Maduro, because in general she’s a deeply unpopular fascist.
Under Maduro, Venezuelan communes and participatory democracy is flourishing. In addition, massive social programs have been implemented, focusing on housing, food security, and poverty eradication. I’m not sure on what basis you distrust him so much, Venezuela is building socialism under Maduro from the bottom-up, and Maduro is doing his part from the top.
It’s incredibly unsurprising that the US Empire is manufacturing consent to invade Venezuela, and overturn their anti-imperialist president. Outside election monitors back up the results, and indicate that the Venezuelan electoral system is far more advanced than the US. I’d trust evidence more if it came from Cuba or Nicaragua than the heart of the empire. This is on top of your vague claims of Maduro being a “monstrous dictator.”
Edit: Lmao the cryptofash on MeanwhileOnGrad got upset at this
It’s interesting that I agree with you, here. A major difference I see between Venezuela and the USSR is that the USSR generally tried to assimilate, arrest or murder the resistant capitalist classes (ie dekulakization), while Venezuela seems to be generally exiling or marginalizing them.
It’s my understanding that Venezuela has kept its political assassinations and imprisonments low and targeted, which was not the case in the USSR.
Venezuela is legitimately closer to what reformist socialists want than any other nation in the world, and the self-described demsocs still hate them for it. Venezuela carries on the legacy of the Bolivar revolution, but in general has been far more reformist in practice, and this is proving to be an angle the US Empire is taking advantage of to destabilize Venezuela. Venezuela’s destiny should be decided by Venezuelans, not the US Empire. The lesson here is that westerners typically do not care how procedural your approach to establishing socialism is, the US Empire will kill you regardless.
Agree wholeheartedly.
It should be obvious to far more people that this country should get to decide it’s own destiny. We have no idea what a Chavismo…or even Castro Cuba would have looked like unmolested. It should also be obvious that what’s feared most in the west is the success of those systems.
The thing that absolutely floors me is that Trump had a Bay of Pigs…and nobody (in the mainstream) talks about it.
Bay of Piglets, more like, haha. No one talks about it because it’s unsavory for the imperialist saber rattling going on right now.
Bay of Piss lmao (because that one guy pissed himself)
One of your sources work for Maduro and the last one is an opinion piece by one man lol.
They’re valid sources and work well. Your sources are overwhelmingly from the US Empire and NGOs they set up or otherwise have strong connections to, like Directorio Legislativo:
Geographical area in which it works: DL has offices in Buenos Aires, Argentina and in Washington DC, USA. We are a regional organization with projects both in Argentina and other Latin American countries. We capture and share regulatory news and information from the governments and legislatures 19 countries (Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Dominican Republic, Uruguay and Venezuela)
Popular polling does support Maduro. I wouldn’t trust those that claimed the US 2020 election was fraudulent, yet these same people are also saying Maduro was fraudulent.
Netanyahu congratulated Machado on her Nobel win and commended her efforts to promote democracy and peace. Machado has previously pledged to move Venezuela’s embassy in Israel to Jerusalem if her movement comes to power, aligning her with other Latin American leaders who have taken pro-Israel stances, including Argentina’s President Javier Milei and former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro.
Source: The CIA
https://directoriolegislativo.org/en/maduro-began-his-third-term-amid-fraud-allegations/
https://www.oas.org/en/IACHR/jsForm/?File=%2Fen%2Fiachr%2Fmedia_center%2FPReleases%2F2025%2F007.asp
https://latinoamerica21.com/en/venezuela-from-fraudulent-elections-to-clandestine-elections/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/americas/south-america/venezuela/report-venezuela/
https://democratic-erosion.org/2025/04/17/populism-and-authoritarianism-in-venezuela/
You’re proving OP correct by responding with orgs like Directorio Legislativo:
Geographical area in which it works: DL has offices in Buenos Aires, Argentina and in Washington DC, USA. We are a regional organization with projects both in Argentina and other Latin American countries. We capture and share regulatory news and information from the governments and legislatures 19 countries (Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Dominican Republic, Uruguay and Venezuela)
Dude the source is fine. It has one arm in the United States. Runs as a non-profit and only takes 30% of funding from any one source. Are you saying anything that touches the US isn’t legitimate?
Directorio Legislativo
https://directoriolegislativo.org/en/who-we-are/
María Baron Global Executive Director
Reagan-Fascell Democracy Fellow
https://www.ned.org/fellowships/reagan-fascell-democracy-fellows-program/
https://countercurrents.org/2022/05/the-national-endowment-for-democracy-a-second-cia/
In 1991, one of the founders of NED, Allen Weinstein, stated that much of NED’s work involves doing what the CIA used to do. Some, in fact, refer to NED as the “second CIA.”
Just have to scratch the surface a little bit to see the imperialist connection here. I’d implore you to not just take the surface-level info from NGOs without understanding the interests they serve.
I’m saying that the US Empire has a long history of trying to manufacture consent to overturn governments in Latin America by funding NGOs and setting them up, training them, etc. It doesn’t matter if they only take 30% funding from any one source, that has no bearing on their purpose as an org, which is to “ensure democracy” by concocting a narrative that fits alongside the US Empire “bringing democracy” to any country that dares to nationalize its resources or otherwise go against US Imperialism.
Yeah so American Imperial fronts like OAS and Directorio Legislativo and US Imperial non profits, got it
Cool story, too bad it’s bullshit
Check the sources in this thread. It’s not. Listen, I dont want Trump and his bullshit in that country. But just looking at the facts here, dude is a dictator. The country has suffered for it. It won’t improve with a Trump puppet regime, that’s for sure.
The problem is thinking you can have fair elections under extreme duress from sanctions. The whole purpose of those sanctions is to destroy as much as possible the democratic aspect, as the US itself admits.
From the official Office of the Historian US Gvt website, a key document regarding the logic behind the embargo in Cuba:
The majority of Cubans support Castro (the lowest estimate I have seen is 50 percent). […]
Communist influence is pervading the Government and the body politic at an amazingly fast rate.
Militant opposition to Castro from without Cuba would only serve his and the communist cause.
The only foreseeable means of alienating internal support is through disenchantment and disaffection based on economic dissatisfaction and hardship.
If the above are accepted or cannot be successfully countered, it follows that every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.
The entire point of the blockade in Cuba, and by extension Venezuela, is that the people DO support their government, and the ONLY way to make them waver in their support is to make them literally starve.
I checked, the sources on this post all either agree with me or are dogshit
These agree with you? Funny because they came from my OG post. Are you saying you agree Maduro is a dictator now? Lol. Regardless, you can have a position against Trump going into the country ( I do) but still realize that the dude is dogshit for the country.
https://directoriolegislativo.org/en/maduro-began-his-third-term-amid-fraud-allegations/
https://www.oas.org/en/IACHR/jsForm/?File=%2Fen%2Fiachr%2Fmedia_center%2FPReleases%2F2025%2F007.asp
https://latinoamerica21.com/en/venezuela-from-fraudulent-elections-to-clandestine-elections/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/americas/south-america/venezuela/report-venezuela/
https://democratic-erosion.org/2025/04/17/populism-and-authoritarianism-in-venezuela/
Lol no those are dogshit, might as well just say “the CIA told me so” and get out your clown makeup
Maduro’s grip on power relies fundamentally on electoral manipulation.
All the “Maduro cheated to win the election” stuff comes from the same people insisting Biden cheated to win in 2020 and Obama cheated in 2008.
Following the contested 2024 election, Maduro launched “Operation Tun Tun” (Operación Tun Tun), a brutal crackdown described by experts as “state terrorism”.
Were these experts affiliated with Elliot Abrams?
Yeah obviously the elections were not fair, that is not what I disagree upon, just that the main US backed opposition candidate Machado will sell off Venezuela to the US empire and be quite a lot worse than Maduro.
Calling Maduro a dictator that needs to be overthrown directly benefits the US in the current tense climate, something needs to be done but Machado is certainly not the way out, just even deeper into the ground.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the obvious conclusion that everyone involved here is awful.
Maduro? Brutal dictator. His domestic opposition? Violent fascists. His international opposition? Absolute war criminals.
It’s really sad. My primary opinion is that the US needs to leave Venezuela the fuck alone. If you want democracy in Venezuela, you can’t get it through sanctioning the population into starvation if they don’t vote the way Chevron tells them to. Did Maduro steal an election? Yes! But his opposition at home and abroad isn’t mad that it wasn’t fair: they’re mad because they think it’s bullshit for him to steal it after they stole it first!
Get the fuck out and let them actually decide what they want. The US is the clearly the greatest villain in a story with no obvious good guys.
The problem is that all of the “evidence” for Maduro cheating comes from the same people that said the US 2020 election was rigged, and are using it as ammo for regime change. Machado and the like are fascists that are trying to topple a democratically elected socialist, just like Pinochet with Allende.
Under Maduro, Venezuelan communes and participatory democracy is flourishing. In addition, massive social programs have been implemented, focusing on housing, food security, and poverty eradication. I’m not sure on what basis you distrust him so much, Venezuela is building socialism under Maduro from the bottom-up, and Maduro is doing his part from the top.
Maduro is no dictator just like Allende wasn’t.
Maduro cheating comes from the same people that said the US 2020 election was rigged
Do you have a source for that? Because from what I can tell, the exact opposite is true, and the sources for these two claims are generally opposed to each other.
Trump’s entire imperialist cabinet roughly orbit around the idea of the election being stolen, and are the biggest pushers of claims of fraud. The reasoning for the former was to try to overturn turn the US election, the reasoning is the same for the Venezuelan election, they would rather have the fascist opposition win. It’s another Allende situation.
Cites biased leftist sources for info:
All sources are biased, but leftist sources portray a working class perspective and this are more to be trusted on the enemies of Empire than the Empire itself.
Removed by mod
That about sums up the extent of your ability to counter what I said. Complain about leftist sources supporting leftist presidents, then you just jump to mockery.
I don’t feed trolls
You’re citing biased imperial sources. An unbiased source is a myth, because everyone has some kind of agenda. Show me someone who needs to eat food to survive and I’ll show you someone with a bias. What matters is understanding the biases and motives of each player to put together a full picture, like a detective cross-referencing statements. Of course I’m going to believe sources that have been truthful in service of a humanitarian agenda over sources that have been Iying nonstop in service of rich pedophiles for as long as I’ve been alive.
Ahh yes, the famous humanitarian Nicolas Maduro
Yes. Under Maduro, Venezuelan communes and participatory democracy is flourishing. In addition, massive social programs have been implemented, focusing on housing, food security, and poverty eradication. I’m not sure on what basis you distrust him so much, Venezuela is building socialism under Maduro from the bottom-up, and Maduro is doing his part from the top.
Edit: Lmao, you made a post on the cryptofash circlejerk about this, calling it “open fascism” to support a socialist leader against imperialist aggression. Do your buddies know that you defend slur usage, or is that something they agree with?
Correct
