I would usually just ignore this, but this is about pointless violence. Yeah vegan turkey is wildly different. But do you think that warrants violence?
If I got invited to a BBQ and they was smoking tofu, I’d still be excited to eat some food someone put effort into.
So I’ll ask, was the word “slightly” the big takeaway you got from my comment?
Look at it the other way around. If you were promised vegan food and your relative tried to trick you into eating meat, how would you feel about it?
I’m not defending violence by the way. There’s no justification for punching your brother or anyone else over this. My defence is for the emotions involved, not the violent response.
No, I am an omnivore. Someone tells me they are serving me meat and it’s actually plant is not the same as serving someone the opposite. I sat this as a meat eater.
As a veggie, I would say it is unethical and potentially dangerous to deceive people about food you are providing them. Please don’t do this, it’s not hard to be honest.
If I tell you we’re going to the football game and you’re excited for that and then I take you to the ballet instead, it’s still wrong! It’s lying!
We all have the right to feel angry and betrayed when someone we trust lies to us. Vegans don’t have any ethical right to lie to people and most vegans I know are strongly opposed to lying to people about their food.
What if the meat eater has an allergy and now they’re going to the hospital because you lied about the ingredients of the food you served them? If you’re a deontologist then you don’t get to hide behind moral luck here. You’re at fault for the deception regardless of the consequences, just as drunk drivers are at fault regardless of whether or not they hit anyone.
If I tell you we’re going to the football game and you’re excited for that and then I take you to the ballet instead, it’s still wrong! It’s lying!
Football enthusiasts are generally not morally opposed to ballet. This is not a good metaphor. Imagine instead that you’re opposed to the death penalty, and I tell you that we’re going to the ballet, but it’s actually a public execution. I desperately hope that you can understand that that’s worse than the reverse situation.
A vegan diet is a subset of a vegetarian diet is a subset of an omnivorous diet. It’s taboo to feed a vegan meat because it lies outside their dietary restrictions, and it’s not taboo to feed an omnivore plants because they’re within their dietary restrictions.
More importantly there’s the moral implications of it. Vegans are (generally) morally opposed to eating meat, but omnivores are not morally opposed to eating plants. Imagine a greater set of foods of which an omnivorous diet is a subset. Say, human veal. Imagine you lived in a society where the majority of people were okay with eating human children, and one of them tried to fool you into eating one. That would be an entirely different situation to you trying to feed one of them turkey, right?
You’re going way off the deep end here. It’s really simple: lying is a moral wrong. Vegans do not get a special moral exemption to trick people into eating vegan food under the false pretence that they’re eating meat.
If you’re honest about what you’re feeding people then there’s no issue because they have the ability to make informed consent and decide not to eat it.
No, I’m just looking at it realistically instead of dumbing it down to a kindergarten reading level. “Lying bad” is such a numbskull take. Obviously it’s better to be honest about the food you’re serving people, but different lies are different amounts of bad. I shouldn’t even have to explain this. If you feed me a seemingly mushroom-based dish, then reveal that it was actually made with tofu, that’s not good. For all you know, I’m allergic to soy. If you instead tell me that that dish actually had veal in it, that would be worse.
On top of not knowing about any potential allergies, there’s an extra layer of moral opposition. I’m not giving vegans some special pass here, that was the point of the cannibalism example. You feeding a cannibalistic friend beef under the pretense that it’s human meat isn’t a good thing, but it’s not as bad as your cannibalistic friend feeding you long pig under the pretense that it’s pork.
Deontology is the ethical basis for veganism. If you’re lying to your meat-preferring friends to trick them into eating plant-based alternatives then you’re using your friends in an attempt to further your own aims; you’re using other people as a means to an end. That’s not a mildly bad thing, that’s a violation of one of the ethical principles (prohibition on exploitation) of veganism.
Now I don’t support reacting with violence to something like that but I do believe it’s fully justified to decline to dine with a friend/relative in future who does that.
I think that an emotional response due to being fed something you would never want to eat is understandable.
Being that way because it’s vegan? That part I struggle with, it’s not like adding peanuts to a dish when you knew someone has a peanut allergy. That would warrant violence, imo.
No worries.
The people who act like vegans are this incomprehensible cariciture of a person really get to me for some reason. Even if you’re not vegan, “lets not hurt animals when we dont need to” is an incredibly easy to understand position.
That is a wildly false equivalency. People who eat meat, like myself, have no ethical quandaries about eating plants. While the inverse is most definitely not true.
What a wild assumption of you to make for your guest. You seem like the worst host ever.
Like there is any ethical quandries about eating pork or not when you eat other meat. You still wouldn’t serve people what they expressively DO NOT want.
My parents always told me, that I will eat what gets served to the table.
Just because you may prefer something different as a dish, this doesn’t mean you have that much of a right to complain, because it wasn’t you who made it. And it definitely does not give you the right to violence.
Good, so we finally arrived at the actual article, and not some moral grand standing about preferences.
I’m willing to bet top.money that the Vegan in question that served the turkey, is as much of a massive assholes as the guy who got arrested. Do you seriously think there is nothing more going on beyond this assault other than “man got mad, cause no meat”. No, there is bound to be a history of these two individuals acting like cunts to each other for years, but now it boiled over because one of them served them food they explicitly asked NOT to have.
I would usually just ignore this, but this is about pointless violence. Yeah vegan turkey is wildly different. But do you think that warrants violence?
If I got invited to a BBQ and they was smoking tofu, I’d still be excited to eat some food someone put effort into.
So I’ll ask, was the word “slightly” the big takeaway you got from my comment?
Look at it the other way around. If you were promised vegan food and your relative tried to trick you into eating meat, how would you feel about it?
I’m not defending violence by the way. There’s no justification for punching your brother or anyone else over this. My defence is for the emotions involved, not the violent response.
No, I am an omnivore. Someone tells me they are serving me meat and it’s actually plant is not the same as serving someone the opposite. I sat this as a meat eater.
As a veggie, I would say it is unethical and potentially dangerous to deceive people about food you are providing them. Please don’t do this, it’s not hard to be honest.
If I tell you we’re going to the football game and you’re excited for that and then I take you to the ballet instead, it’s still wrong! It’s lying!
We all have the right to feel angry and betrayed when someone we trust lies to us. Vegans don’t have any ethical right to lie to people and most vegans I know are strongly opposed to lying to people about their food.
What if the meat eater has an allergy and now they’re going to the hospital because you lied about the ingredients of the food you served them? If you’re a deontologist then you don’t get to hide behind moral luck here. You’re at fault for the deception regardless of the consequences, just as drunk drivers are at fault regardless of whether or not they hit anyone.
Football enthusiasts are generally not morally opposed to ballet. This is not a good metaphor. Imagine instead that you’re opposed to the death penalty, and I tell you that we’re going to the ballet, but it’s actually a public execution. I desperately hope that you can understand that that’s worse than the reverse situation.
Yes, it is.
Hard disagree.
Don’t care.
A vegan diet is a subset of a vegetarian diet is a subset of an omnivorous diet. It’s taboo to feed a vegan meat because it lies outside their dietary restrictions, and it’s not taboo to feed an omnivore plants because they’re within their dietary restrictions.
More importantly there’s the moral implications of it. Vegans are (generally) morally opposed to eating meat, but omnivores are not morally opposed to eating plants. Imagine a greater set of foods of which an omnivorous diet is a subset. Say, human veal. Imagine you lived in a society where the majority of people were okay with eating human children, and one of them tried to fool you into eating one. That would be an entirely different situation to you trying to feed one of them turkey, right?
You’re going way off the deep end here. It’s really simple: lying is a moral wrong. Vegans do not get a special moral exemption to trick people into eating vegan food under the false pretence that they’re eating meat.
If you’re honest about what you’re feeding people then there’s no issue because they have the ability to make informed consent and decide not to eat it.
No, I’m just looking at it realistically instead of dumbing it down to a kindergarten reading level. “Lying bad” is such a numbskull take. Obviously it’s better to be honest about the food you’re serving people, but different lies are different amounts of bad. I shouldn’t even have to explain this. If you feed me a seemingly mushroom-based dish, then reveal that it was actually made with tofu, that’s not good. For all you know, I’m allergic to soy. If you instead tell me that that dish actually had veal in it, that would be worse.
On top of not knowing about any potential allergies, there’s an extra layer of moral opposition. I’m not giving vegans some special pass here, that was the point of the cannibalism example. You feeding a cannibalistic friend beef under the pretense that it’s human meat isn’t a good thing, but it’s not as bad as your cannibalistic friend feeding you long pig under the pretense that it’s pork.
Deontology is the ethical basis for veganism. If you’re lying to your meat-preferring friends to trick them into eating plant-based alternatives then you’re using your friends in an attempt to further your own aims; you’re using other people as a means to an end. That’s not a mildly bad thing, that’s a violation of one of the ethical principles (prohibition on exploitation) of veganism.
Now I don’t support reacting with violence to something like that but I do believe it’s fully justified to decline to dine with a friend/relative in future who does that.
can you support this?
You might want to read up on deontology, then you’d see that my statement is obvious, not controversial.
If you’re into meat, you are into violence. Necessarily. Why hold back?
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Because restraint creates dramatic tension.
I think that an emotional response due to being fed something you would never want to eat is understandable.
Being that way because it’s vegan? That part I struggle with, it’s not like adding peanuts to a dish when you knew someone has a peanut allergy. That would warrant violence, imo.
I’ll remember that for the next time i just slightly use meat in the food i serve to my vegetarian friends.
Or pork to the Muslim ones.
Are you incapable or unwilling to understand the difference between a taste preference and a moral one?
Thank you for putting it more succinctly!
No worries. The people who act like vegans are this incomprehensible cariciture of a person really get to me for some reason. Even if you’re not vegan, “lets not hurt animals when we dont need to” is an incredibly easy to understand position.
Said it just yesterday, I don’t get the random hate vegans catch. Like let people just be.
That is a wildly false equivalency. People who eat meat, like myself, have no ethical quandaries about eating plants. While the inverse is most definitely not true.
What a wild assumption of you to make for your guest. You seem like the worst host ever.
Like there is any ethical quandries about eating pork or not when you eat other meat. You still wouldn’t serve people what they expressively DO NOT want.
My parents always told me, that I will eat what gets served to the table.
Just because you may prefer something different as a dish, this doesn’t mean you have that much of a right to complain, because it wasn’t you who made it. And it definitely does not give you the right to violence.
Good, so we finally arrived at the actual article, and not some moral grand standing about preferences.
I’m willing to bet top.money that the Vegan in question that served the turkey, is as much of a massive assholes as the guy who got arrested. Do you seriously think there is nothing more going on beyond this assault other than “man got mad, cause no meat”. No, there is bound to be a history of these two individuals acting like cunts to each other for years, but now it boiled over because one of them served them food they explicitly asked NOT to have.