As a cis male, I support women 100%. I would not want someone to think I am one. This is a shitty and childish way to alienate supporters.
EDIT: the irony that people are actually telling me I’m the one that has the problem for saying I’d correct someone if they said I was something I am not is god damned delicious!
Where exactly at any point in this post does anyone talk about calling a cis male a woman?
The post is about calling a straight person gay. Equating gayness with not being (real) man is hella homophobic.
Excuse me for making the mistake of pointing out that being slightly crappy towards a straight person isn’t the end of the fucking world.
You’re so right, straight people already have to deal with so much discrimination and worries regarding their sexuality, it’s totally fair to compare it to misgendering a trans person, after all, we all know straight people on average worry just as much about their sexuality, and societal acceptance of their sexuality, than trans people do.
And I would bet fucking money, that if someone was arguing that misgendering a trans person isn’t that bad, all of you people down voting me wouldn’t have half as much issue with that.
So, I’m guessing there’s a bit of trouble extrapolating the point here.
At no point did anyone talk about calling a cis male a woman. That wasn’t the point being made.
What I did, was I used myself to illustrate being called something I’m not, and then gauging whether or not I still can say I support said thing even if don’t want to be called said thing.
I suppose I could have used animals as an example instead? I am all-in on supporting animal rights, minded domain, and stand firmly against animal abuse, though I’d prefer not to have people refer to me as a chihuahua.
Or what about nature conservation? I fully sport the protection of nature and wildlife habitats, however I’d prefer not to be referred to as a sycamore tree.
The point is, one can very much support something while preferring people not assume that they are that thing. It’s not about whether or not it offends them, It’s about them feeling that they should be respected for who and what they are.
While I get what you’re saying, you would still be the person who is choosing to take offense in this situation, and getting yourself worked up. This would be more like if someone said you look like you’re from Boston, weird because there’s not a true ‘look’, but not a big deal at all.
Equating it to someone calling you a dog is the energy you’re putting on it yourself. It’s generally considered dehumanizing to equate gay people to dogs, something to consider
Complains about people not trying to understand your point. Immediately refuses to engage in any meaningful way with a comment literally starting with the words “I get what you’re saying”.
You are the one who needs to step back and actually think about the rhetoric you are spewing before just pushing it out there. From your own standards that you defined in your conversation here, you are saying that when a Trans person gets misgendered, THEY are CHOOSING to get worked up if they get upset and correct someone. Your own rhetoric is transphpbic. People have a RIGHT to express and maintain their own identity. You need to understand that.
I’d love for you to explain to me where that follows from the standards I’ve laid out.
I explicitly said that a straight person who is secure and comfortable in their sexuality will not mind. Being secure and comfortable in your gender identity ain’t exactly something trans people are known for, so only someone who knows fuck all about trans people could possibly think this is remotely comparable.
Straight people, with very few, if any, exceptions, didn’t grow up being told they’re gay. Being forced by society to express themselves as gay, even though it made them feel awful. They didn’t spend potentially decades feeling unwelcome in their own skin. They don’t spend hours upon hours worrying that society won’t accept than as “a real straight”. They don’t spend days worrying about the hate crime, discrimination and legal persecution they are susceptible to if they don’t look straight enough. Triggering that level of trauma isn’t the same as making someone slightly uncomfortable because they found out they unknowingly didn’t express their outward sexuality as strongly as they felt. It isn’t remotely, on any level, comparable, and that is an objective truth.
I am also notably not defending calling straight people gay. I’m just pointing out that deliberately misgendering a trans person is on a completely different plane of shitty behaviours. Not every shitty behaviour is automatically equally shitty.
Then you kinda missed the point. The point isn’t to call a straight person gay, and laugh at them if they react in any way negatively whatsoever. The point of the post is that despite calling themselves allies, many straight men would react to this as though it were an inherently bad thing if they were gay, rather than just an inaccurate assessment.
If you don’t think being a woman is bad, and you present in a way where confusion is reasonably possible, surely you wouldn’t get upset at someone (seemingly) accidentally misgendering you. You would simply point out that it’s inaccurate. You might feel a bit bummed out that you weren’t presenting as masculine as you wanted, but unless you’re a major dick, you won’t get upset at (at least outwardly) someone with no malicious intent accidentally misgendering you.
If you get immediately upset at someone accidentally, falsely clocking you as gay, that is an enormously strong indicator that you perceive an allegation of gayness as personal insult, rather than merely an inaccuracy.
I still think this it’s a dick move, mostly because you never know if someone you think is straight might actually be in the closet, or struggling with their sexuality, but it’s nowhere near as bad as you make out, because ultimately someone who is actually steaight, and comfortable with their sexuality, would only get upset at a person for being accidentally called gay if they view gayness as inherently bad.
Ironic, considering you’re the one who is painting this entire issue as entirely black and white (“It’s bad because I think it’s bad”), whilst I’m the one actually bringing in nuanced arguments.
You’ll also note (or maybe not, if you didn’t bother actually reading my comment) that I LITERALLY agree that this it’s a dick move to actually do this, and just argue that you’re making it out as worse than it is, and for the wrong reasons. That’s called nuance, my dude.
You’re welcome to disagre with my arguments, and provide a counter. Or you can just do the intellectual equivalent of flipping over the chess board, because you think your opponent is playing bad.
All right then… you go and enjoy being outraged by everything. Be sure to keep rewriting everyone’s point for them so they are too busy defending themselves against shit they never said instead of the pout they actually made.
Going to block you now. I prefer to not have my time wasted by people who won’t even try to underywhat someone is saying without Turing it into a pointless debate.
As a cis male, I support women 100%. I would not want someone to think I am one. This is a shitty and childish way to alienate supporters.
EDIT: the irony that people are actually telling me I’m the one that has the problem for saying I’d correct someone if they said I was something I am not is god damned delicious!
Where exactly at any point in this post does anyone talk about calling a cis male a woman?
The post is about calling a straight person gay. Equating gayness with not being (real) man is hella homophobic.
Excuse me for making the mistake of pointing out that being slightly crappy towards a straight person isn’t the end of the fucking world.
You’re so right, straight people already have to deal with so much discrimination and worries regarding their sexuality, it’s totally fair to compare it to misgendering a trans person, after all, we all know straight people on average worry just as much about their sexuality, and societal acceptance of their sexuality, than trans people do.
And I would bet fucking money, that if someone was arguing that misgendering a trans person isn’t that bad, all of you people down voting me wouldn’t have half as much issue with that.
Nowhere “exactly”. It’s an analogy.
So, I’m guessing there’s a bit of trouble extrapolating the point here.
At no point did anyone talk about calling a cis male a woman. That wasn’t the point being made.
What I did, was I used myself to illustrate being called something I’m not, and then gauging whether or not I still can say I support said thing even if don’t want to be called said thing.
I suppose I could have used animals as an example instead? I am all-in on supporting animal rights, minded domain, and stand firmly against animal abuse, though I’d prefer not to have people refer to me as a chihuahua.
Or what about nature conservation? I fully sport the protection of nature and wildlife habitats, however I’d prefer not to be referred to as a sycamore tree.
The point is, one can very much support something while preferring people not assume that they are that thing. It’s not about whether or not it offends them, It’s about them feeling that they should be respected for who and what they are.
Isn’t that what it’s all about anyway??
While I get what you’re saying, you would still be the person who is choosing to take offense in this situation, and getting yourself worked up. This would be more like if someone said you look like you’re from Boston, weird because there’s not a true ‘look’, but not a big deal at all.
Equating it to someone calling you a dog is the energy you’re putting on it yourself. It’s generally considered dehumanizing to equate gay people to dogs, something to consider
Jfc…. There’s no point debating this.
Complains about people not trying to understand your point. Immediately refuses to engage in any meaningful way with a comment literally starting with the words “I get what you’re saying”.
My dude, take a look in the mirror.
You are the one who needs to step back and actually think about the rhetoric you are spewing before just pushing it out there. From your own standards that you defined in your conversation here, you are saying that when a Trans person gets misgendered, THEY are CHOOSING to get worked up if they get upset and correct someone. Your own rhetoric is transphpbic. People have a RIGHT to express and maintain their own identity. You need to understand that.
I’d love for you to explain to me where that follows from the standards I’ve laid out.
I explicitly said that a straight person who is secure and comfortable in their sexuality will not mind. Being secure and comfortable in your gender identity ain’t exactly something trans people are known for, so only someone who knows fuck all about trans people could possibly think this is remotely comparable.
Straight people, with very few, if any, exceptions, didn’t grow up being told they’re gay. Being forced by society to express themselves as gay, even though it made them feel awful. They didn’t spend potentially decades feeling unwelcome in their own skin. They don’t spend hours upon hours worrying that society won’t accept than as “a real straight”. They don’t spend days worrying about the hate crime, discrimination and legal persecution they are susceptible to if they don’t look straight enough. Triggering that level of trauma isn’t the same as making someone slightly uncomfortable because they found out they unknowingly didn’t express their outward sexuality as strongly as they felt. It isn’t remotely, on any level, comparable, and that is an objective truth.
I am also notably not defending calling straight people gay. I’m just pointing out that deliberately misgendering a trans person is on a completely different plane of shitty behaviours. Not every shitty behaviour is automatically equally shitty.
Then you kinda missed the point. The point isn’t to call a straight person gay, and laugh at them if they react in any way negatively whatsoever. The point of the post is that despite calling themselves allies, many straight men would react to this as though it were an inherently bad thing if they were gay, rather than just an inaccurate assessment.
If you don’t think being a woman is bad, and you present in a way where confusion is reasonably possible, surely you wouldn’t get upset at someone (seemingly) accidentally misgendering you. You would simply point out that it’s inaccurate. You might feel a bit bummed out that you weren’t presenting as masculine as you wanted, but unless you’re a major dick, you won’t get upset at (at least outwardly) someone with no malicious intent accidentally misgendering you.
If you get immediately upset at someone accidentally, falsely clocking you as gay, that is an enormously strong indicator that you perceive an allegation of gayness as personal insult, rather than merely an inaccuracy.
I still think this it’s a dick move, mostly because you never know if someone you think is straight might actually be in the closet, or struggling with their sexuality, but it’s nowhere near as bad as you make out, because ultimately someone who is actually steaight, and comfortable with their sexuality, would only get upset at a person for being accidentally called gay if they view gayness as inherently bad.
LAMO…. I give up. I was warned that rationality and nuance are things not often considered by people on lemmy.
Ironic, considering you’re the one who is painting this entire issue as entirely black and white (“It’s bad because I think it’s bad”), whilst I’m the one actually bringing in nuanced arguments.
You’ll also note (or maybe not, if you didn’t bother actually reading my comment) that I LITERALLY agree that this it’s a dick move to actually do this, and just argue that you’re making it out as worse than it is, and for the wrong reasons. That’s called nuance, my dude. You’re welcome to disagre with my arguments, and provide a counter. Or you can just do the intellectual equivalent of flipping over the chess board, because you think your opponent is playing bad.
All right then… you go and enjoy being outraged by everything. Be sure to keep rewriting everyone’s point for them so they are too busy defending themselves against shit they never said instead of the pout they actually made.
Going to block you now. I prefer to not have my time wasted by people who won’t even try to underywhat someone is saying without Turing it into a pointless debate.
You’re literally the one who is blatantly refusing to even for a second entertain the possibility that I have a point. Every accusation a confession.