The old historical meaning and value of liberalism is emphasis on individuality and private property. Those two come part and parcel together. It is no coincidence that socialism developed as a collectivist response to liberalism. Many people think socialism is only on economic level but socialism is, well, also social. Socialism tries to go back to collectivism; where group well-being is more important than individual. Think about it, why do the slogans “1% vs 99%” and “for the many, not the few” are leftist while centrists shun it? Other ideologies also tried to claim collectivism, namely communism and fascism. These ideologies are anti-liberal in the sense that they are against individualism. Never mind some of the collectivist ideologies are not democratic but that requires another discussion. In any case, you will notice socialists, communists and fascists often use “we” in their rhetoric more than the liberals and centrists alike, because of greater emphasis on collectivism, as in “us” rather than “you” and “I”.
I urge you to read more on the historical development of political ideologies, especially on collectivism and individualism. This is not simply left or right, this is also collectivism versus individualism. This is what gets lost on the current discourse and why I think liberals and left lost ground in recent decades, because they don’t understand. You don’t have to agree, you have to understand. At the very least, progressives like Zohran Mamdani, Bernie Sanders and AO recognised this and they understand, and captured the appreciation of MAGA voters.
If you change the meaning of a word then you can apply behaviors to it that win your argument.
I’m sure you don’t mean to but hiding it inside a collection of other words looks like obfuscation to “sneak” the point in.
I think where you went wrong in your initial hypothesis was when you correlated liberalism to individualism. Individualism is a western affliction and applies to both conservative and liberal demographics.
Ask yourself why liberal Democrats are so against progressives. Ask as well why in liberal cities, there are so many NIMBYs voting against affordable housing despite being “progressive”. The individualistic values “sneaks” to economic policies.
It’s going to be a lot but I urge you to read on the historical development of liberalism and you’ll understand. It then ties to why socialism developed, and later on fascism and communism.
There is deliberate obfuscation by your government and elites to muddy the terms to prevent further mobilisation of people against them. While in other parts of the world, calling one’s self a socialist, democratic socialist or social democrats are perfectly fine, it is very much a no-no in the US and Americans instead call themselves progressive.
Precisely what I’m talking about, individualistic.
Just know that liberals in other countries are considered conservatives. Like, Mamdani is considered far left in US, but his policies are normal in Europe.
It’s you that is nearly there. Your attempt to blame liberalism doesn’t resonate and surely does not seem to have a historical precedent.
The old historical meaning and value of liberalism is emphasis on individuality and private property. Those two come part and parcel together. It is no coincidence that socialism developed as a collectivist response to liberalism. Many people think socialism is only on economic level but socialism is, well, also social. Socialism tries to go back to collectivism; where group well-being is more important than individual. Think about it, why do the slogans “1% vs 99%” and “for the many, not the few” are leftist while centrists shun it? Other ideologies also tried to claim collectivism, namely communism and fascism. These ideologies are anti-liberal in the sense that they are against individualism. Never mind some of the collectivist ideologies are not democratic but that requires another discussion. In any case, you will notice socialists, communists and fascists often use “we” in their rhetoric more than the liberals and centrists alike, because of greater emphasis on collectivism, as in “us” rather than “you” and “I”.
I urge you to read more on the historical development of political ideologies, especially on collectivism and individualism. This is not simply left or right, this is also collectivism versus individualism. This is what gets lost on the current discourse and why I think liberals and left lost ground in recent decades, because they don’t understand. You don’t have to agree, you have to understand. At the very least, progressives like Zohran Mamdani, Bernie Sanders and AO recognised this and they understand, and captured the appreciation of MAGA voters.
If you change the meaning of a word then you can apply behaviors to it that win your argument.
I’m sure you don’t mean to but hiding it inside a collection of other words looks like obfuscation to “sneak” the point in.
I think where you went wrong in your initial hypothesis was when you correlated liberalism to individualism. Individualism is a western affliction and applies to both conservative and liberal demographics.
Ask yourself why liberal Democrats are so against progressives. Ask as well why in liberal cities, there are so many NIMBYs voting against affordable housing despite being “progressive”. The individualistic values “sneaks” to economic policies.
It’s going to be a lot but I urge you to read on the historical development of liberalism and you’ll understand. It then ties to why socialism developed, and later on fascism and communism.
There is deliberate obfuscation by your government and elites to muddy the terms to prevent further mobilisation of people against them. While in other parts of the world, calling one’s self a socialist, democratic socialist or social democrats are perfectly fine, it is very much a no-no in the US and Americans instead call themselves progressive.
There we go. I suspected as much. You’re being quite dishonest and it only took you three giant walls of text to let it out.
I don’t debate conservatives. You have nothing to add to my experience. Goodbye.
Precisely what I’m talking about, individualistic.
Just know that liberals in other countries are considered conservatives. Like, Mamdani is considered far left in US, but his policies are normal in Europe.