Do “Neurotypical” people exist? Seems to me like the classic example of how the average woman has 2.5 children, but you can’t find anyone who actually gives birth to 2.5 children.
You’re confusing avreages with normative pressures. Neurodivergence wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t some broadly applicable set of behaviors, pathologies, and cultural standards to compare “abnormal” behaviors against. While true that there is no truly normal person, there is a normative standard applied to social groups that is used appropriately and inappropriately. An appropriate use of this norm allows us to identify groups with similar diversions from the “norm” and find ways to either develop treatment for harmful aspects of these diversions or (ideally) adjust aspects of the normative social standard that are needlessly damaging to the out groups. An inappropriate utilization of social norms excludes outgroups and furthers the already existing harm done to those groups (a part of this is the stereotypes that you mention).
Or you could just deny the existence of this cultural technology, call it an abstraction with no use or foundation in reality, and use that denial to invalidate the struggles of marginalized groups because you’re so high off your own farts that you’d rather use semantics and “nuance” to be an overly technical weiner and hide your bigotry with a paper thin veneer of “scrutinizing stereotypes”.
To throw a personal anecdote in, men generally, and white men in particular, have usually been the ones to inflict their unsolicited “advice” on all sorts of things in my life. Especially things they haven’t personally struggled with and don’t really understand. Plenty of white men have “the hustle” and “grindset” mentality too. And they’re usually the ones to be the most adamant about it.
You missed my point entirely. “Neurotypical” is a term that only makes sense in conversations about specific forms of Neuro diversity, and when talking about groups. There is no such thing as a “neurotypical” individual. This meme is attacking “neurotypical” individuals, but in reality when talking about individuals “neurotypical” just means “I, as the observer, am not aware this person’s neurodiveristy so I’m just going to pretend like that means it does not exist”.
And your personal anecdotes are as useful to the conversation as any other personal anecdotes is. I’ve received plenty of unsolicited advice from women and people of color. For as many anecdotes you have about the “hustle” grindset of white men, we can find plenty of similar stories from non-white cultures. My Cantonese friend in high school who faced the pressures of his “tiger mom”. The cultural issues Japan and Korea are facing with overwork. Heck, this meme is attacking “positivity” from white men, but you could argue a lot of that “positivity” originated from the New Age movements which got most of that from “eastern” religions.
Attacking “middle class neurotypical white men” is the same bullshit culture-war nonsense that far-right groups use to single out and hate on everyone else. Just because it’s attacking different groups than usual doesn’t make it any less bigoted or any more correct.
In very broad terms. Quickly. You only get a diagnosis of something like autism spectrum disorder if you are far enough along the ‘spectrum’ for it to be particularly impactful on your life.
There are plenty of people who exhibit some neurodivergent trait(s) to some degree, at some times, but not enough for it to be an issue. That group of people are considered neurotypical.
If no one is neurotypical, as you claim, then no one is neurodivergent. Which isn’t just plainly nonsense/ It is offensive to people struggling with having a different kind of brain that makes functioning in a neurotypical dominated world at least difficult.
(Just to clear up the misconception that the autism spectrum goes from NT to “severely” autistic. It’s not a linear scale from not autistic to autistic.)
If no one is neurotypical, as you claim, then no one is neurodivergent
This statement here is just completely nonsensical rhetoric. You are staying it like it’s some sort of logical conclusion that it’s true when there is no such logical conclusion. Maybe that’s why you think it’s nonsense… Because it is nonsense that you’re making up, not me.
Neurotypical GROUPS exist. Neurotypical BEHAVIORS exist. Neurotypical INDIVIDUALS do not. You aren’t ever going to get diagnosed as neurotypical.
Plenty of people are assessed, then diagnosed as not being neurodivergent. This is being diagnosed as neurotypical and it happens over and over again every day.
Lol are those people in the room with us right now?
They assessed as not qualifying for a diagnosis for the specific disorders they are being tested for. That is a far, far cry from being “diagnosed as neurotypical”.
If you don’t have the disorders that would classify you as neurodivergent, then by default you’re neurotypical.
Neurotypical is the default state, and you’re tested to see if you diverge from the default state. If you don’t have that divergence then you’re neurotypical.
Neurotypical INDIVIDUALS do not. You aren’t ever going to get diagnosed as neurotypical.
What does this even mean? lmao
Yeah, you’re not going to go through an assessment and have an expert be all “your diagnosis is neurotypical”, just like how you don’t go to a doctor to be diagnosed as healthy. It’s not a diagnosis. Being neurodivergent means that you can be placed on a spectrum of neurocognitive difference from the norm. If you don’t fall within this spectrum, you are by process of elimination neurotypical.
This is giving “we’re all a little bit neurospicy” and no one’s here for that nonsense.
“Neurotypical” is a term that only makes sense when talking about groups, and in contrast to other groups you are discussing. It only makes sense when you are aggregating populations of people. Referring to an individual as “neurotypical” is nonsensical.
Furthermore, inexpertly diagnosing someone on the bus (or otherwise, but the setting of the meme is a bus so I’m using that) as “neurotypical” just because you don’t immediately recognize any noticeable traits of neurodiveristy is extremely problematic. It’s dangerous to just toss the word “neurotypical” around casually.
You’re aware that no one is diagnosing the men in the image, right? That’s obviously not the point. It seems to me like you’re just arguing out of bad faith.
Do you not know how meme’s work? OP is constructing a strawman. Claiming individuals who are white, middle class, neurotypical, male people exist. Implying causality between these identities and this behavior. Which is racist, sexist, generally bigoted nonsense.
You’re confusing avreages with normative pressures. Neurodivergence wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t some broadly applicable set of behaviors, pathologies, and cultural standards to compare “abnormal” behaviors against. While true that there is no truly normal person, there is a normative standard applied to social groups that is used appropriately and inappropriately. An appropriate use of this norm allows us to identify groups with similar diversions from the “norm” and find ways to either develop treatment for harmful aspects of these diversions or (ideally) adjust aspects of the normative social standard that are needlessly damaging to the out groups. An inappropriate utilization of social norms excludes outgroups and furthers the already existing harm done to those groups (a part of this is the stereotypes that you mention).
Or you could just deny the existence of this cultural technology, call it an abstraction with no use or foundation in reality, and use that denial to invalidate the struggles of marginalized groups because you’re so high off your own farts that you’d rather use semantics and “nuance” to be an overly technical weiner and hide your bigotry with a paper thin veneer of “scrutinizing stereotypes”.
To throw a personal anecdote in, men generally, and white men in particular, have usually been the ones to inflict their unsolicited “advice” on all sorts of things in my life. Especially things they haven’t personally struggled with and don’t really understand. Plenty of white men have “the hustle” and “grindset” mentality too. And they’re usually the ones to be the most adamant about it.
You missed my point entirely. “Neurotypical” is a term that only makes sense in conversations about specific forms of Neuro diversity, and when talking about groups. There is no such thing as a “neurotypical” individual. This meme is attacking “neurotypical” individuals, but in reality when talking about individuals “neurotypical” just means “I, as the observer, am not aware this person’s neurodiveristy so I’m just going to pretend like that means it does not exist”.
And your personal anecdotes are as useful to the conversation as any other personal anecdotes is. I’ve received plenty of unsolicited advice from women and people of color. For as many anecdotes you have about the “hustle” grindset of white men, we can find plenty of similar stories from non-white cultures. My Cantonese friend in high school who faced the pressures of his “tiger mom”. The cultural issues Japan and Korea are facing with overwork. Heck, this meme is attacking “positivity” from white men, but you could argue a lot of that “positivity” originated from the New Age movements which got most of that from “eastern” religions.
Attacking “middle class neurotypical white men” is the same bullshit culture-war nonsense that far-right groups use to single out and hate on everyone else. Just because it’s attacking different groups than usual doesn’t make it any less bigoted or any more correct.
In very broad terms. Quickly. You only get a diagnosis of something like autism spectrum disorder if you are far enough along the ‘spectrum’ for it to be particularly impactful on your life.
There are plenty of people who exhibit some neurodivergent trait(s) to some degree, at some times, but not enough for it to be an issue. That group of people are considered neurotypical.
If no one is neurotypical, as you claim, then no one is neurodivergent. Which isn’t just plainly nonsense/ It is offensive to people struggling with having a different kind of brain that makes functioning in a neurotypical dominated world at least difficult.
(Just to clear up the misconception that the autism spectrum goes from NT to “severely” autistic. It’s not a linear scale from not autistic to autistic.)
This statement here is just completely nonsensical rhetoric. You are staying it like it’s some sort of logical conclusion that it’s true when there is no such logical conclusion. Maybe that’s why you think it’s nonsense… Because it is nonsense that you’re making up, not me.
Neurotypical GROUPS exist. Neurotypical BEHAVIORS exist. Neurotypical INDIVIDUALS do not. You aren’t ever going to get diagnosed as neurotypical.
Plenty of people are assessed, then diagnosed as not being neurodivergent. This is being diagnosed as neurotypical and it happens over and over again every day.
I am done with this stupidity.
Lol are those people in the room with us right now?
They assessed as not qualifying for a diagnosis for the specific disorders they are being tested for. That is a far, far cry from being “diagnosed as neurotypical”.
If you don’t have the disorders that would classify you as neurodivergent, then by default you’re neurotypical.
Neurotypical is the default state, and you’re tested to see if you diverge from the default state. If you don’t have that divergence then you’re neurotypical.
But we’re pointlessly arguing semantics.
Do you ever get diagnosed for not having something? No.
So I guess there is no lack of disease. Everyone is sick.
This is what your argument is saying. And it’s asinine.
Do you go around to people who aren’t coughing and label them “sickless”?
No; and that’s the point. You don’t disgnose a lack of illness. Which is why nobody would be diagnosed as neurotypical. 🤦♂️
What does this even mean? lmao
Yeah, you’re not going to go through an assessment and have an expert be all “your diagnosis is neurotypical”, just like how you don’t go to a doctor to be diagnosed as healthy. It’s not a diagnosis. Being neurodivergent means that you can be placed on a spectrum of neurocognitive difference from the norm. If you don’t fall within this spectrum, you are by process of elimination neurotypical.
This is giving “we’re all a little bit neurospicy” and no one’s here for that nonsense.
“Neurotypical” is a term that only makes sense when talking about groups, and in contrast to other groups you are discussing. It only makes sense when you are aggregating populations of people. Referring to an individual as “neurotypical” is nonsensical.
Furthermore, inexpertly diagnosing someone on the bus (or otherwise, but the setting of the meme is a bus so I’m using that) as “neurotypical” just because you don’t immediately recognize any noticeable traits of neurodiveristy is extremely problematic. It’s dangerous to just toss the word “neurotypical” around casually.
You’re aware that no one is diagnosing the men in the image, right? That’s obviously not the point. It seems to me like you’re just arguing out of bad faith.
Do you not know how meme’s work? OP is constructing a strawman. Claiming individuals who are white, middle class, neurotypical, male people exist. Implying causality between these identities and this behavior. Which is racist, sexist, generally bigoted nonsense.