The issue is with the conscience and the soul. Essentially the question is: “If your whole body is taken apart atom by atom, does the soul get taken along with it?”
In this case, the soul can just mean ‘you’. The ‘you’ that is seeing through your eyes right now, and is giving you the current experience you are now experiencing. To give an easier example, let’s say you are copied exactly four feet to your right. Your copy will look exactly like you, have all your memories, yadda yadda yadda. It seems pretty obvious that ‘you’ won’t all of a sudden be seeing through your copy’s eyes, no? If you get vaporised, then, your conscience is not going to just teleport into your clone, right? At least there’s nothing to suggest that would happen.
Teleportation is just a fancy version of this in a different order. You are vaporised first, then your atoms are moved real fast to the new location, then your copy uses those atoms. There’s zero reason to think that the ‘you’ which was vaporised is ever coming back. Once it’s gone, it’s gone, or at least that’s the idea.
Whether you believe in the spiritual concept of a soul, or that your experience of the world is just a specific instance of electrical charges in some fancy meat, both seem to suggest that once the anima departs, it will never return. A new anima must instead be made.
Except, in your final statement that’s kinda false? The “Anima” is just the electrical signals of the meat suit. That’s it, that’s the “you”. There is 0 evidence that’s ever been produced of any kind that there is any existence of a soul or spirit beyond “trust me bro.”
In this case you have 2 exact copies of “you” and milliseconds later those two copies diverge as new neurons are formed. As soon as they start forming their own experience at that point each one is different, their own “me” (from their points of view). No need to make up some higher level of meaning such as a soul.
We are all just brains riding around in an electrical meat suit, listening to chemical signals from the bacteria in our guts and some how finding meaning and purpose in an uncaring universe. That’s a helluva a lot more amazing and meaningful then a cosmic space daddy giving us “us”
I’ve been trying to be faith-agnostic about it, as in the signals in your brain, some weird angel possession a meat mech, whatever. There is a clear phenomena where ‘you’ come into existance and get to look through your eyes. ‘You’ get to experience the world through these signals, and the full explanation of how that becomes a first person perspective observing the world is still not cleanly explained. That’s the anima, the soul, ‘you’.
Teleportation both, destroys your body completely and so when the copy gets made on the other side it’s not going to be the same you even if you use all the same atoms, and only interacts with the physical world so no spiritual soul would be brought along with it.
Basically, you will go into the teleporter, they’ll fire it up, and then you’ll stop being able to see, think, feel, or do anything relating to existence because you stopped existing. A new anima will be created when the copy of your physiology is constructed on the other end. ‘You’ never come back.
What does it matter if there’s new “anima”. I am me. It doesn’t matter if it’s my original body or another body. It’s whatever is my current frame of reference for the corresponding meat bag that I inhabit.
I really don’t understand the whole “well I died, and this isn’t me”… are you conscious? Lucid? Retain your memories? Then what does it matter?
“Well what if the original is still around or there are two copies?” Again, it doesn’t matter, because at that point they are two physically distinct entities. You only inhabit one of them and the moment you start experiencing different stimuli, you’re two separate people. Granted at that point there are some legal and logistical issues, but it’s not a metaphysical one.
You don’t seem to get my point. We’re talking about the instance of you reading this comment right now. As in ‘you’. That’s the anima.
If that anima is destroyed you cease to exist, because you are that anima. The reassembled you will not be ‘you’, because ‘you’ were destroyed when you were vaporized. You’re not just gonna come back from that. So whether that anima is obliterated or not should matter to you.
Your ability to observe the world is based on the current instance of your whole self in its current configuration, and if that configuration is completely obliterated, you’re gone. It doesn’t matter if they make a copy of you after - even with the same atoms.
Then by that logic, you die every time you lose consciousness or go to sleep. If I’m in one body, lose consciousness and awaken in another body, it’s really no different because I’m still me.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the same atoms or not, I am me.
Maybe you do, and your existence only lasts a day, and you’re just oblivious that you’ll disappear when you lay down tonight. Or maybe we can acknowledge that you never fully lose all brain activity when asleep and that that matters.
You are a current instance of you only, held together by temperal and spacial coherence. If either of those then you cease to exist. Ergo, teleportation and time travel both kill you.
The issue is with the conscience and the soul. Essentially the question is: “If your whole body is taken apart atom by atom, does the soul get taken along with it?”
In this case, the soul can just mean ‘you’. The ‘you’ that is seeing through your eyes right now, and is giving you the current experience you are now experiencing. To give an easier example, let’s say you are copied exactly four feet to your right. Your copy will look exactly like you, have all your memories, yadda yadda yadda. It seems pretty obvious that ‘you’ won’t all of a sudden be seeing through your copy’s eyes, no? If you get vaporised, then, your conscience is not going to just teleport into your clone, right? At least there’s nothing to suggest that would happen.
Teleportation is just a fancy version of this in a different order. You are vaporised first, then your atoms are moved real fast to the new location, then your copy uses those atoms. There’s zero reason to think that the ‘you’ which was vaporised is ever coming back. Once it’s gone, it’s gone, or at least that’s the idea.
Whether you believe in the spiritual concept of a soul, or that your experience of the world is just a specific instance of electrical charges in some fancy meat, both seem to suggest that once the anima departs, it will never return. A new anima must instead be made.
Except, in your final statement that’s kinda false? The “Anima” is just the electrical signals of the meat suit. That’s it, that’s the “you”. There is 0 evidence that’s ever been produced of any kind that there is any existence of a soul or spirit beyond “trust me bro.”
In this case you have 2 exact copies of “you” and milliseconds later those two copies diverge as new neurons are formed. As soon as they start forming their own experience at that point each one is different, their own “me” (from their points of view). No need to make up some higher level of meaning such as a soul.
We are all just brains riding around in an electrical meat suit, listening to chemical signals from the bacteria in our guts and some how finding meaning and purpose in an uncaring universe. That’s a helluva a lot more amazing and meaningful then a cosmic space daddy giving us “us”
I’ve been trying to be faith-agnostic about it, as in the signals in your brain, some weird angel possession a meat mech, whatever. There is a clear phenomena where ‘you’ come into existance and get to look through your eyes. ‘You’ get to experience the world through these signals, and the full explanation of how that becomes a first person perspective observing the world is still not cleanly explained. That’s the anima, the soul, ‘you’.
Teleportation both, destroys your body completely and so when the copy gets made on the other side it’s not going to be the same you even if you use all the same atoms, and only interacts with the physical world so no spiritual soul would be brought along with it.
Basically, you will go into the teleporter, they’ll fire it up, and then you’ll stop being able to see, think, feel, or do anything relating to existence because you stopped existing. A new anima will be created when the copy of your physiology is constructed on the other end. ‘You’ never come back.
You say there is zero evidence, but there are, just use introspection, you are you. Cogito ergo sum.
Make 2 “copies” it’s obvioys they aren not both you. Maybe neither.
I’ll walk 😁
Cogito ergo sum. Latin for the internal “trust me bro”
They are each themselves perfectly “you” until the first neuron forms independently.
There isn’t some nebulous soul they are sharing, no “I have a soul and those two don’t”.
They are all the same “Chemical impulse”machines until their split experience causes different neurons to form.
Well let’s turn the table, you can’t prove the opposite either.
There’s no evidence that continuous consciousness isn’t an illusion due to memory being good enough.
Sure, and if ot is so, then teleport is ok. But if it isn’t, which can’t be disproven, teleport is nono.
You can’t prove a negative. But we know how neurons work -
What does it matter if there’s new “anima”. I am me. It doesn’t matter if it’s my original body or another body. It’s whatever is my current frame of reference for the corresponding meat bag that I inhabit.
I really don’t understand the whole “well I died, and this isn’t me”… are you conscious? Lucid? Retain your memories? Then what does it matter?
“Well what if the original is still around or there are two copies?” Again, it doesn’t matter, because at that point they are two physically distinct entities. You only inhabit one of them and the moment you start experiencing different stimuli, you’re two separate people. Granted at that point there are some legal and logistical issues, but it’s not a metaphysical one.
You don’t seem to get my point. We’re talking about the instance of you reading this comment right now. As in ‘you’. That’s the anima.
If that anima is destroyed you cease to exist, because you are that anima. The reassembled you will not be ‘you’, because ‘you’ were destroyed when you were vaporized. You’re not just gonna come back from that. So whether that anima is obliterated or not should matter to you.
Your ability to observe the world is based on the current instance of your whole self in its current configuration, and if that configuration is completely obliterated, you’re gone. It doesn’t matter if they make a copy of you after - even with the same atoms.
Then by that logic, you die every time you lose consciousness or go to sleep. If I’m in one body, lose consciousness and awaken in another body, it’s really no different because I’m still me.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the same atoms or not, I am me.
Maybe you do, and your existence only lasts a day, and you’re just oblivious that you’ll disappear when you lay down tonight. Or maybe we can acknowledge that you never fully lose all brain activity when asleep and that that matters.
You are a current instance of you only, held together by temperal and spacial coherence. If either of those then you cease to exist. Ergo, teleportation and time travel both kill you.
I understand your view, I just think i fundamentally disagree with what makes “you” “you”. Good thought problem to chat about
It’s one of my favorites to argue on.