Why does he need to be defended? Does he actually contribute to the issues he is concerned with in any way that doesn’t also benefit his brand? How would any streamer, regardless of their professed politics, be worth anything to a revolutionary process? Why is he not a mere spectacle?
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say “I used to watch Hasan and then started reading lenin and now here I am”. I have heard that with the deprogram, through the subreddit which was highly commie and encouraged people to look beyond.
So I can’t agree that he forms a pipeline, and telling his audience to read lenin does not make one if they are not going to read lenin but keep watching him instead. Socdems are not communist and have never been.
I also think he gets a lot of leeway because he’s “on the left” that would not be afforded if he wasn’t so popular. I’ve said it before with mamdani; everyone on the right is taking appointments with him to get him on their side - zionists are talking to him, republicans are talking to him, Obama is talking to him, fundamentalist Christians are talking to him… The only people that refuse to steer him back left are socialists. We have stopped believing in self criticism.
Exactly! And things are only getting more dire. I remember at one point years back it became taboo to even discuss his wealth.
Can’t discuss his wealth, can’t discuss he went to a brothel in Germany, can’t discuss how he treats his dog, because apparently he says good things about Palestine and so he must be cherished for that, as if he was the only person speaking on Palestine. The point of self-criticism is to improve a line. We are scared of losing or detaching ourselves from anyone who appears remotely left because we always feel on the defensive. This is not unique to the US, though it’s often the subject - this happens in Europe too. Eurocommunists and trots abound, and they get a pass (some trots) because “they’re moving things left”. But if you move 3 people left while preventing 100 from moving further at all (to give an illustrative example), then are you really helping? This is the kind of data I would prefer to rely on.
He doesn’t even have to say anything to address anything said against him anymore, as soon as something pops up it will be instantly dismissed by others for him. I’m just asking myself, is this how the CPC works? How the CPSU worked? “Yes Xi is embezzling funds despite his anti-corruption campaign, but he’s just too big to fail. Think of everything else he’s done for us!” I just can’t see it happening and we have to be serious communists in our entire life, i.e. both online and offline, if only for ourselves.
The crux of the matter is we are on the defensive because we don’t feel anywhere we can act. But it’s up to us to seize the moment, without asking for permission first. I know it’s easier said than done, but if Hasan is to be part of a pipeline then it’s also on us, the communists, to seize on that. Don’t leave people stew on streams and wait for them to somehow make their way somewhere, reach out to them. Show them there exists something beyond the first step. This is why I mentioned r/thedeprogram, I’ve vetted hundreds of people online (real credentials I know lol) and many of them said they listened to one of the three deprogrammers, then went to the subreddit, then went further left - and then I/we get them further left into Lemmygrad and ProleWiki. This is also why it’s important to have a strong line, though I realize of course you won’t really have a party line online and people will naturally drift towards their own opinions, hence (probably) why Hasan refuses to understand the problem with visiting a brothel in Germany. The other problem is things never fully live in the past online even if you’ve changed as a person since that time. There is an argument that it was 5 years ago and he can’t dwell on it.
Anyway, maybe that pipeline happens in his twitch chat and that’s cool. I think some people link theory there, I’m not sure if it was him or someone else. I’ll be completely honest, I don’t really have the patience to go watch entry-level streamers. I have many things I could say about this but the relevant one is ultimately they’re just presenting their one view, and I know a lot of people are going to adopt these opinions as their own just because their streamer says it. But a line is forged through crit and self-crit, it must be submitted to others to be discussed, critiqued, refined and ultimately a third, new thing appears that did not exist anymore (you can see it as the Aristotlean dialectic, thesis-antithesis-synthesis, with the synthesis not being a recap of the 2 elements but a completely original thing).
One last thing - if we don’t expose people to marxism and the verbiage, then they will never pick up on it. Nobody comes up with the bourgeoisie by themselves, understandably. If we did we wouldn’t be reading Marx. We “disdain to conceal our aims” because doing so dilutes theory. We call it the bourgeoisie because it means a specific thing, not ‘capitalists’ because that word means a lot of different things. To be pre-emptive, I’m all for starting out simply with the stuff that makes sense to newcomers, but at some point you have to get them in deeper if they are to learn the material. This goes for all things; scientists call things by their names, not by euphemisms.
Ok, well now you have. I used to watch Hasan, then started reading lenin. Now hear I am. He encourages people to go outside and organize, so I now spend significantly less time online. I have met many others in my org who did the same.
My pipeline was through Hasan (however I’ve been a lefty my entire life), his subreddit had a pinned link tree with socialist resources where I found thedeprogram and then through that found lemmy. That said I’m not as big of a fan of him as I used to be, just grew out of it.
I, on the otherhand, have heard it quite often. What i heard even more often is that Hasan is what led them towards second thought/deprogram in general, other left creators and then into actual theory.
No one forms a pipeline alone. The pipeline is obviously not implied to be Hasan -> The State and Revolution as you seem to think. Hasan is the very first step towards radicalisation for many people including me and after him there were other content creators (german commies on youtube) and now i am getting into proper theory.
He is the streamer for libs that don’t even know what the word imperialism means. He is the streamer for the people that would get scared away if he were any more clear about his opinions.
I don’t think people give him any leeway at all tbh. Every misstep or perceived misstep gets immediately put under a microscope by the left and then he gets called a socdem by some ultra-maoist or something.
Hasan doesn’t punch left, clearly leaves the door open and even encourages for people to go further down the pipeline.
I hate the term pipeline anymore because everyone views it as a literal pipe. That’s there’s just one link leading to the next. When it’s more like a network leading from one side to another. The more channels, the better the flow.
It’s like, it’s like a swamp. You have dirty water coming on from all over. Some is far off and murky. Some is just rain water falling near the end, but it all has to pass through the swamp that filters and cleans it.
And Swamps, can be pretty gross. Nasty stinking, terrible places to LIVE, but are great for the ecosystem. That’s what we actually have, a swamp, and as we progress through the swamp, things get cleaner and cleaner, but we won’t have the nice forests and clear streams at the end, if we don’t have all the nasty swamp bullshit at the other.
This is why I advocate against farther along leftists attacking some of the “murkier” parts of the swamp. It’s like, as an example, stupidpol shit. They are crude and offensive and say some dumb shit, but like, you aren’t going to get chuds even considering communism otherwise. Hell, I spent a lot of time in that community many years ago. Then I grew past it as I learned and grew. I used that community to turn a chuddy friend into a communist who sees China as the hope of Communism.
So, so long as some of those people “move through the swamp” to cleaner parts, then it’s doing it’s job. If we cut it down, drain it, then that water will never get clean. Same with the Dem socs, etc. not all “water” falls clean and pure from the sky.
Of course the problem becomes when we turn those filthier places into our homes. Water is meant to flow through a swamp, not sit in it forever. We have to watch out for damn and such. And some areas of the swamp is contaminated with “artificial pollutants.” Like Vaush types that are like a leaking oil pipe stuck in there. So obviously we have to keep an eye out for these things. The key point is identifying, is this person actually aiding in filtering people to the next level? Are they outputting cleaner water then what came in? If so, we should do what we can to support them, while still trying to bring that “cleaner but still dirty” water through the next level.
So yeah, that’s my thoughts on it. I guess I see Hasan as a part of the swamp doing some good work. Maybe? Idk. I have been typing and thinking about this for way too long now. Swamps are cool, or something. Thanks for tuning into my rambling.
Well, here’s his yearly viewer census.
Socialist is a broad term and I don’t think this data is so clear cut because socialist grew by 10% in just 6 months in 2020 then tapered off. To me this shows rather that his audience is renewing, based on this graph.
I really enjoyed reading this comment. Thank you. Its great to get different and thoughtout perspectives on topics instead of just gut feeling or ones own thoughts. :)