Can this argument just disappear from discourse? People don’t always drive around with their partner, dog and 2.5 kids AND groceries AND spare tires AND grandparents.
The majority of people in car-centric areas use their car only to haul around themselves, which could be done with public transport or bikes.
That, and the nearest grocery store being 15 miles (25 km) away is highly unusual even by US standards. In the US alone, over 80% of people live in what the Census Bureau calls a city, defined as “encompass[ing] at least 2,000 housing units or hav[ing] a population of at least 5,000 people.” The fact that someone chooses to live in bumfuck nowhere shouldn’t mean that the other people who live in a town with population > 5 shouldn’t get to have safe, affordable, well-kept walking/micromobility/public transit infrastructure.
People don’t suddenly stop driving cars when not-cars becomes the predominant form of transportation. Like I said, “main form of transportation”. That cars are by far the main form is the problem because, among other huge problems, it induces reliance on cars and creates expensive, unmaintainable sprawl that makes other forms of transit completely impractical. Hell, even bumfuck nowhere towns used to have passenger rail that came through them before the tracks were ripped out. I think people who worry that good not-car infrastructure will destroy their ability to drive are projecting, because in reality, it’s always been car infrastructure that eats up everything else around it, not vice-versa.
“What do you mean ‘boats shouldn’t be the primary form of transportation’? Did you ever consider that I chose to live on an island off the coast of Michigan??”
Legit. If my wife wants to come on a trip I’m driving on, she can hop on her bike. The two of our bikes together cost a fifth what our car cost, and the “fuel” expenses are negligible with solar.
Honestly thinking of a way to solar recharge the bikes while we’re camping. Like, an umbrella to shade the battery, with a solar panel on top and an extension cord up connect the battery under the damn thing. Maybe solar panels on the bike too and some active cooling for the batteries idk
Oh yes, the grocery store commute. You can clearly see in traffic that every car is full of groceries and people everyday at all times, and is rarely one person alone
Most Americans are used to very spread out cities. It causes a lot of problems with groceries since you have to make far fewer grocery trips, which then means fresh foods are rare. Probably a huge contributor to America’s obesity problem
Yeah many of our cities in statesia have tiny urban centers and sprawling suburbs.
There’s a “town” suburb of a nearby city that has the waterfront zoned for multi-use property. Businesses (including my favorite restaurant ever) are on the first floor, residences on the second. I really want to rent/buy the apartment above my favorite restaurant and eat there every day, but the restaurant owner’s daughter lives there right now. It’s almost ideal for a walkable community
The closest grocery store is literally in the same building I currently live in. It takes me ~30 seconds from my apartment door to grocery store door… This (<3 mins to the nearest grocery store) is the norm in a lot of places.
When I lived in my own house in the woods (literally no neighbors), I could bike ~10 minutes to the nearest small farmer’s shop, or ~20 minutes and get to a bigger grocery store. The fact that you must drive to buy groceries is, frankly, insane.
When I lived in my own house in the woods (literally no neighbors), I could bike ~10 minutes to the nearest small farmer’s shop, or ~20 minutes and get to a bigger grocery store. The fact that you must drive to buy groceries is, frankly, insane.
I live in Russia, dachas are common enough here (mostly summertime and not heated houses on small plots of land, used for gardening and sometimes growing food). So, we have one. When I’m there, I only bike for fun. I can literally walk to the neighboring town with a cinema and a mall and plenty of conveniences in 40 minutes on foot. I mean, people who have cars do drive to that kind of distances, but it’s not necessary. It’s the kind of place where in like 1 in 20 houses people live most of the time. And still.
You know that your family can ride too? In cities which aren’t car-centric hell-holes, it’s normal for kids of very young ages (6-8 years old) to walk/bike everywhere on their own. It also tends to help a lot with their independence and development.
Also, if you build your cities correctly, your grocery store will be a <3 minute walk. Your spouse or kids can just walk there.
And when they are close, you don’t need to hoard 2 weeks or a whole month worth of groceries per trip, you can just get them more frequently and enjoy fresher produce
This is precisely how the real world works, unless you live in under a dictatorship of capital so brazen they have even taken the concept of a livable city away from you.
This is precisely how parts of the real world work, but guess what? There’s a fuck ton of places that are not like that, so why just pretend that isn’t the case?
I mean, this is the premise of the original comment here. That there still are backwards-ass places where people have to own a car and drive, when much better forms of transportation exist.
Step one: leave the family (especially toddlers and infants) at home with a trusted caretaker or dog. Step two, ride about 15mph so you don’t drain the battery too fast. Step three, wake up
Some people are completely unable to understand that not everybody lives in a city with everything on their doorstep, some people have children, and some people need to be able to transport more than a few small items at a time.
Therefore the majority that do live in a city must use cars too?
No one is coming to your rural community to build a bike lane. These discussions are never about the rural folk. Y’all are going to be left alone. Bikes and transit don’t make sense in low-density rural areas
Now please stop fighting the change the rest of us want in our cities
Big city people: Boy, it’d sure be nice if there were fewer cars in the center of this big city right here, and more people would use the public infrastructure already at their disposal.
Country people: Some people don’t live in cities, therefore this statement is also about me! There tryin ta tek muh cur!
Hold on, let me just load up the family onto my bicycle and ride the 15 miles to the grocery store.
Can this argument just disappear from discourse? People don’t always drive around with their partner, dog and 2.5 kids AND groceries AND spare tires AND grandparents.
The majority of people in car-centric areas use their car only to haul around themselves, which could be done with public transport or bikes.
That, and the nearest grocery store being 15 miles (25 km) away is highly unusual even by US standards. In the US alone, over 80% of people live in what the Census Bureau calls a city, defined as “encompass[ing] at least 2,000 housing units or hav[ing] a population of at least 5,000 people.” The fact that someone chooses to live in bumfuck nowhere shouldn’t mean that the other people who live in a town with population > 5 shouldn’t get to have safe, affordable, well-kept walking/micromobility/public transit infrastructure.
People don’t suddenly stop driving cars when not-cars becomes the predominant form of transportation. Like I said, “main form of transportation”. That cars are by far the main form is the problem because, among other huge problems, it induces reliance on cars and creates expensive, unmaintainable sprawl that makes other forms of transit completely impractical. Hell, even bumfuck nowhere towns used to have passenger rail that came through them before the tracks were ripped out. I think people who worry that good not-car infrastructure will destroy their ability to drive are projecting, because in reality, it’s always been car infrastructure that eats up everything else around it, not vice-versa.
“What do you mean ‘boats shouldn’t be the primary form of transportation’? Did you ever consider that I chose to live on an island off the coast of Michigan??”
True. However “food deserts” do exist in some US cities. Though that’s another consequence of unfettered capitalism.
Im surprised everytime I see a car with more than 2 people, just 1 is the norm
Legit. If my wife wants to come on a trip I’m driving on, she can hop on her bike. The two of our bikes together cost a fifth what our car cost, and the “fuel” expenses are negligible with solar.
Honestly thinking of a way to solar recharge the bikes while we’re camping. Like, an umbrella to shade the battery, with a solar panel on top and an extension cord up connect the battery under the damn thing. Maybe solar panels on the bike too and some active cooling for the batteries idk
Oh yes, the grocery store commute. You can clearly see in traffic that every car is full of groceries and people everyday at all times, and is rarely one person alone
I leave the 8-story building (with an elevator), walk 5-10 minutes (one road crossing with lights), buy groceries, in 30 minutes I’m back home.
Something is wrong with that murrka thing.
Most Americans are used to very spread out cities. It causes a lot of problems with groceries since you have to make far fewer grocery trips, which then means fresh foods are rare. Probably a huge contributor to America’s obesity problem
Yeah many of our cities in statesia have tiny urban centers and sprawling suburbs.
There’s a “town” suburb of a nearby city that has the waterfront zoned for multi-use property. Businesses (including my favorite restaurant ever) are on the first floor, residences on the second. I really want to rent/buy the apartment above my favorite restaurant and eat there every day, but the restaurant owner’s daughter lives there right now. It’s almost ideal for a walkable community
The closest grocery store is literally in the same building I currently live in. It takes me ~30 seconds from my apartment door to grocery store door… This (<3 mins to the nearest grocery store) is the norm in a lot of places.
When I lived in my own house in the woods (literally no neighbors), I could bike ~10 minutes to the nearest small farmer’s shop, or ~20 minutes and get to a bigger grocery store. The fact that you must drive to buy groceries is, frankly, insane.
I live in Russia, dachas are common enough here (mostly summertime and not heated houses on small plots of land, used for gardening and sometimes growing food). So, we have one. When I’m there, I only bike for fun. I can literally walk to the neighboring town with a cinema and a mall and plenty of conveniences in 40 minutes on foot. I mean, people who have cars do drive to that kind of distances, but it’s not necessary. It’s the kind of place where in like 1 in 20 houses people live most of the time. And still.
You know that your family can ride too? In cities which aren’t car-centric hell-holes, it’s normal for kids of very young ages (6-8 years old) to walk/bike everywhere on their own. It also tends to help a lot with their independence and development.
Also, if you build your cities correctly, your grocery store will be a <3 minute walk. Your spouse or kids can just walk there.
And when they are close, you don’t need to hoard 2 weeks or a whole month worth of groceries per trip, you can just get them more frequently and enjoy fresher produce
If, if, if… That’s not how the real world works
I mean, it’s literally already how it works for billions of people.
This is precisely how the real world works, unless you live in under a dictatorship of capital so brazen they have even taken the concept of a livable city away from you.
This is precisely how parts of the real world work, but guess what? There’s a fuck ton of places that are not like that, so why just pretend that isn’t the case?
I mean, this is the premise of the original comment here. That there still are backwards-ass places where people have to own a car and drive, when much better forms of transportation exist.
They didn’t pretend that, they literally just told you exactly why it isn’t the case.
You were the one who said that it isn’t how the world works, when it literally is.
It’s not how the world works though, only select parts. Saying the world works this way implies it does for everyone.
Step one: leave the family (especially toddlers and infants) at home with a trusted caretaker or dog. Step two, ride about 15mph so you don’t drain the battery too fast. Step three, wake up
I’ll be sure to tell my brother (single parent) he can just leave his kid at home with the caretaker he can’t afford
i think you missed step 3
Some people are completely unable to understand that not everybody lives in a city with everything on their doorstep, some people have children, and some people need to be able to transport more than a few small items at a time.
Therefore the majority that do live in a city must use cars too?
No one is coming to your rural community to build a bike lane. These discussions are never about the rural folk. Y’all are going to be left alone. Bikes and transit don’t make sense in low-density rural areas
Now please stop fighting the change the rest of us want in our cities
Big city people: Boy, it’d sure be nice if there were fewer cars in the center of this big city right here, and more people would use the public infrastructure already at their disposal.
Country people: Some people don’t live in cities, therefore this statement is also about me! There tryin ta tek muh cur!