Saint-Raphaël's right-wing mayor, no stranger to media stunts, has vowed to 'put an end to the lies about the reality of communist totalitarianism.' In response, the French Communist Party and other left-wing groups denounced the 'revisionism of history.'
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc, we get it, you were traumatized. But you can’t just blanketly force your bad experience on the rest of us. In much of the world, the polarity of your experience was reversed. Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this. Joke all you like, but it’s just simply historical fact in places ranging from Spain and Greece to like Indonesia and Nepal. And in those places, the conflation of communism and Nazism as “totalitarianism” is just obscene.
In France in particular, I mean look at the tricolour: socialist ideas are part of what being French is. And this fascist mayor is doing something obscene, essentially lumping the collaborationists and the pétainistes together with the people who fought against them for a free french people.
Yes, your experiences are valid, but they are not the only ones that are valid.
That’s entirely where the perspective comes from, even if it’s second-hand, since most other people don’t have direct experience living in a communist society.
Or Nazi society for that matter, but got the most part we have consensus on that one being universally awful.
No it’s not the same. I’m not saying communists built stuff. I’m saying communists fought and got persecuted for democracy and human rights. This is actually historically true in places like the ones I mention in my post, places like Greece, Chile, Indonesia, etc. Show me one fucking place in the world where Nazis/fascists fought for democracy and human rights. I’ll wait.
That’s just a flat lie. Communists have never championed Democracy and human rights. PRC, North Korea, Vietnam, the Soviet Union, none promoting either democracy or human rights in practice. What possible state falls into your arguments here, I struggle to think of a single one.
I mean Cambodia under Pol Pot!? Human rights, what a joke.
Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this.
Do you want me to list names of Greek communists who did exactly that and suffered exactly thar? I even have a great-uncle who did several years hard time.
You say what state falls under this description? I dunno, Chile under Allende? Kerala under several decades of communist government? Uruguay under Mujica? Burkina under Sankara? Or do you want a recent European example, like Cyprus under Christofias? Or do you want examples of countless communist mayors from around the world? I could expand to Chiapas under the Zapatistas or Republican Spain or even Rojava under the SDF but let’s keep revolutionary governments out of the picture.
Cuba seems to be pretty good with respect to human rights (especially considering their situation). Don’t they have like the best (and most per capita maybe?) doctors in the world?
The question at hand is “why are these French fascists pointing morons at communism when they’re trying to bring back empire” and the answer is “because dumbasses like you buy it and talk about whattaboutism when people point out their hypocrisy.”
No. The question at hand is, of course, my comment to which you replied; to exemplify these, Communist states that so champions Democracy and Human Rights. And I’m just waiting…
If your definition of democracy is going out and vote every 4/5 yr (that fundamentally wont change anything) and then be suppressed by state, then sure you are enjoying democracy
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc, we get it, you were traumatized. But you can’t just blanketly force your bad experience on the rest of us. In much of the world, the polarity of your experience was reversed. Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this. Joke all you like, but it’s just simply historical fact in places ranging from Spain and Greece to like Indonesia and Nepal. And in those places, the conflation of communism and Nazism as “totalitarianism” is just obscene.
In France in particular, I mean look at the tricolour: socialist ideas are part of what being French is. And this fascist mayor is doing something obscene, essentially lumping the collaborationists and the pétainistes together with the people who fought against them for a free french people.
Yes, your experiences are valid, but they are not the only ones that are valid.
I’m confused who you’re addressing your comment to. The article is about a French town. That’s not the former soviet bloc.
The most rabid anticommunists online tend to be people from eastern Europe or immigrants (or their descendents) from there
That’s entirely where the perspective comes from, even if it’s second-hand, since most other people don’t have direct experience living in a communist society.
Or Nazi society for that matter, but got the most part we have consensus on that one being universally awful.
You got kicked in a head by a horse? Your “argument” is equal to saying “Nazis werent all bad, they build highways.” Shame on you.
No it’s not the same. I’m not saying communists built stuff. I’m saying communists fought and got persecuted for democracy and human rights. This is actually historically true in places like the ones I mention in my post, places like Greece, Chile, Indonesia, etc. Show me one fucking place in the world where Nazis/fascists fought for democracy and human rights. I’ll wait.
That’s just a flat lie. Communists have never championed Democracy and human rights. PRC, North Korea, Vietnam, the Soviet Union, none promoting either democracy or human rights in practice. What possible state falls into your arguments here, I struggle to think of a single one.
I mean Cambodia under Pol Pot!? Human rights, what a joke.
Communists never championed democracy and rights?
What do you know of modern Greek history?
Here is what I wrote:
Do you want me to list names of Greek communists who did exactly that and suffered exactly thar? I even have a great-uncle who did several years hard time.
You say what state falls under this description? I dunno, Chile under Allende? Kerala under several decades of communist government? Uruguay under Mujica? Burkina under Sankara? Or do you want a recent European example, like Cyprus under Christofias? Or do you want examples of countless communist mayors from around the world? I could expand to Chiapas under the Zapatistas or Republican Spain or even Rojava under the SDF but let’s keep revolutionary governments out of the picture.
Cyprus, Chile and Uruguay? You’ve got to be kidding… these failed states have horrendous human rights records
At this point in the thread I’m not sure if you’re ignorant or just trolling.
Could say the same so maybe just leave it
Cuba seems to be pretty good with respect to human rights (especially considering their situation). Don’t they have like the best (and most per capita maybe?) doctors in the world?
Certainly not democratic since all opposition was abolished, and the press was censored.
1 out of 2 ain’t bad lol
There was never one Communism, but many different ones.
Communism in Italy, for example, was only slightly related to the experience in the CCCP.
In fact this is historically a fatal flaw of communism, the user was kinda doomed the moment the revolution in Germany failed
Communists in Italy never held state power…
The PCI was official opposition in the '70s and ran the local governments of most of Italy’s large cities.
Who stopped Pol Pot?
For that matter, who colonized Cambodia and Vietnam?
Where are the memorials for the victims of French imperialism?
Great whataboutism, but irrelevant to the question at hand
The question at hand is “why are these French fascists pointing morons at communism when they’re trying to bring back empire” and the answer is “because dumbasses like you buy it and talk about whattaboutism when people point out their hypocrisy.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Might want to read that btw. You might find the “Defense” section interesting if you’re actually interested in honest rhetoric.
No. The question at hand is, of course, my comment to which you replied; to exemplify these, Communist states that so champions Democracy and Human Rights. And I’m just waiting…
If your definition of democracy is going out and vote every 4/5 yr (that fundamentally wont change anything) and then be suppressed by state, then sure you are enjoying democracy
k
Ok and was the USSR democratic?
It had democratic aspects, but overall it wasn’t really democratic.
You educated and do not praise us straight to gulag!
For like 10 minutes in the beginning.
No, it also wasn’t communist so not sure what’s your point.
Nah bro we lernd in skool that they called themselves communist; they wrote CCCP on everything there’s gotta be at least one communism in there
On the off chance you’re serious, that’s not a C but a С which is essentially a Russian S. Also the Russian R is Р
So СССР is actually SSSR, and is short for Союз (Union) Советских (of Soviet) Социалистических (Socialist) Республик (Republics) or USSR in English.