I was recruited for two tacos and a large horchata.
dead ass, was walking from high-school with a friend, and two sailors pulled up along side us and told us they’d buy us mexican food if we came with them to the recruiter station. and naturally, of course we got into the strangers car who promised us tacos.
Turns out they were two sailors who had just graduated basic and we briefly back of leave and decided to drop in on their recruiter. Anyways, they made good on their promise of tacos, so I went ahead and took the asvab then and there. Did well enough to get a 10 grand signing bonus offer on the spot (this was in 2001, before 9/11). And realistically, I didn’t have any plan for after I graduated (I was a few years early to graduate because I was doing dual enrollment). So I kinda just said… fuck it and signed up.
My thinking at the time? It was a guaranteed paycheck; I knew I wouldn’t starve; it would eventually pay for college; and it was going to give me a hiring preference for other federal jobs down the line. It would give me time to figure things out, and it wouldn’t be wasted time. Also, it would get me out of the house and let me “have a plan”, and maybe I’d actually get to see some places. Growing up as poor as I did, the military was basically the only option I would have to do those kinds of things.
Anyways, a few months later 9-11 happened. They gave me the option to drop (I had depped in but hadn’t shipped out yet). But nah. I stuck with it. It really did give me advantages later in life, and because of my rate and the timing, I didn’t get wrapped up in WoT/Iraq/ Afghanistan. Did my time, got out. Very close friends of mine weren’t’ so lucky.
And honestly it was a hugely eye opening experience and really guided my politics. I would download shows like Democracy Now! because I could download it for free and was something I could put on mp3 and rip to a CD. The US military, at least the enlisted ranks, is one of the most diverse work forces on the planet. It really gets you out of your space and shows you the true diversity of (at least, the poor/ working class) of America.
I’m communicating this not because I think it in any way justifies what I did or what new recruits might decide to do. I’m mostly putting this out there to give one example of what a teenager who goes and signs up might be thinking.
You allegedly signed up when only the most tuned in people expected a war.
These fuckers are signing up when we just got done a forever war and are threatening to invade Canada. And the military is increasingly being used against the US domestically.
So fuck off with that “understand where the SS are coming from” bullshit.
Say you’ve got a young relative or some one you are mentoring who is considering this kind of decision?
How would you expect to convince them to make a different decision if you yourself don’t understand or can’t empathize with why they are making a decision?
Its a 🪱 🧠 level of understanding to think that understanding why some one makes the decisions they make or has the thoughts they have indicates in any way that you agree with them. Understanding why someone makes a decision they make is not equivalent to agreeing with them, and its a mental deficient to avoid understanding someone because you don’t agree with them. Its precisely because you don’t agree with them that you should strive to understand them.
They are willingly signing up to hurt other people for their own benefit. Their neighbors to the North and their friends and family at home.
There is nothing more that needs to be discussed. It is not “mental deficient” to not spend time listening to a republican talk about how trans people should die and it is not “mental deficient” to not keep telling someone oppressing others for an orange rapist is evil.
children suffer from grandiose delusions of military service intentionally induced by state propaganda. they are victims before they are perpetrators; part of their victimization is being coerced into becoming a perpetrator: this is how a cycle of abuse perpetuates itself.
respectfully, ‘republicans talking about trans people need to die’ is non-sequitor; it follows from nothing said before in this comment chain and more importantly leads to nothing (as far as i can see anyway) that is relevant in this conversation about the reasons for military enlistment. also ‘counterargument from typo’ is a worse look than the typo itself. was it a good take on his part? no, saying you have brainworms was ad hominem insult that frankly just doesn’t stick. and yes, it is a little bit ironic to be calling another person stupid while making a syntax error. a very little bit ironic. comparing my sense of irony to my sense of elitism, i find in the balance a stereotypical human error that in no way actually detracts from any point they were attempting to make.
telling people that the military is not actually the propaganda they’ve been fed but would in fact be oppressing others for an evil orange rapist is a good thing. it does not conflict in any way with anything he or i have said; nothing that has been said by the other poster or me prevents you from making that valid observation to a potential recruit or even an active duty member. i unironically encourage you to do so. if you manage to break even one child out of the cycle of abuse and prevent a new ss member from being created, you will have done the world a great service.
i’ll take this opportunity to re-phrase something the other poster said, ‘just because you’re considering the perspective of another person doesn’t mean you’re endorsing that person or their behavior.’ now go do god’s work, and remember: empathy is not a sin.
god is a quaint metaphor. you were with me until then, so it didn’t actually detract from any point i made. i was trying to draw attention to and defeat the concept of ‘empathy is a sin’ by explicitly countering it on its own terms. i can empathize with the christian perspective, but i do not sympathize with it.
No, it isn’t a non sequitor because it is the exact same thought process. To put it bluntly, it is “the intolerant left” stupidity.
Empathy is a two way street. When one side has decided the other side doesn’t deserve to exist? Sure, let’s meet in the middle! You maybe burn a few less crosses and you can just breathe 4 days out of the week. Isn’t the middle great?!?
And same thing there. One side has decided they are perfectly okay invading one of our oldest allies and stomping on the necks of protesters if it means they get to “see the world” and get a paycheck. There is no fucking middle ground there.
if you manage to break even one child out of the cycle of abuse and prevent a new ss member from being created, you will have done the world a great service.
And you do that by making it damned clear that it is a “with us or against us” mindset. Either side with The People or oppress them.
So yeah. If that makes me part of the intolerant left because I refuse to entertain this shit? Oh no, your blessed god might disapprove of me! Because this isn’t even “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we invited a cheney to the DNC?”. This is very much “okay. Let’s meet in the middle. We’ll have civil rights every other day and we can just invade part of Canada. Nobody likes Quebec anyway”
friend, i think it needs to be stated explicitly that i have respect for you as a person, your opinion, and your right to express it. i also need to say that i think we agree more than we disagree. i am an atheist for a start, and as evidence i submit the fact that i do not capitalize the name of the fictitious god. i do not capitalize a lot of things, friend, but i especially do not capitalize the word ‘god.’ i was using god as a convenient topical metaphor. i think see what you meant with trans hate speech now, i was a little quick to dismiss that point. in a way i think i was doing the same thing i think you were trying to do talking about trans hate by making the comparison to ‘empathy is a sin.’ i was trying to refer to the kind of mindset that says “empathy is a sin” and say you don’t have to think that way, whether you believe in a god or not. it was clunky and clumsy if i have to explain it this much, sorry for that.
And you do that by making it damned clear that it is a “with us or against us” mindset. Either side with The People or oppress them.
we agree. what i’m trying to point out is that in there are a lot of factors that have nothing to do with empathy or trans hatred or invading countries or oppressing minorities generally that do not occur to children before they walk into a recruiter’s office with civic duty and filial pride and escape from poverty in their heads. that it is possible to be a totally normal, morally sane, apparently well-adjusted human being who walks into a recruiter for a global war crime syndicate think they’re doing a right and good thing. telling such an apparently ‘morally sane’ person that they’re about to commit evil without explaining that to them, without overcoming almost 2 decades of programming inertia first is bound to backfire. the easiest and best way i know of overcoming that inertia is empathy. no gods required. and you don’t have to sympathize to empathize. that said, considering why someone acts the way they do does not obligate you to act that way too.
you don’t need to meet in the middle, and I am 100% not asking you to. i would respect your opinion a lot less if i thought you wanted to meet midway between fascism and whatever-we-had-before-that-we-could-pretend-was-democracy.
Yeah. I don’t respect anyone (as a person or their opinion) who take the stance of “You have to think about the jackboots and cut them some slack”
I don’t fucking care what brought them to the belief that it is okay to oppress and murder others for their own financial and societal gain. They have already pulled themselves out of society and they are monsters. And if the only way for them to respect the right of others to Exist is to give them a handy and buy them lots of tacos? Then they aren’t on our side and will flip the moment someone offers them more. So fuck those mother fuckers. They are the enemy.
And fuck anyone who wants people to feel sympathy for the folk stomping on necks and getting ready to unload the train cars at the camps.
im not asking you to cut jackboots slack. i am asking you to cut children who are intoxicated by propaganda slack. get it?
I very explicitly said i do not expect you to sympathize while you empathize and i take this as evidence you aren’t fucking reading me. my personal respect for you has been downgraded from friend to persona non-grata.
I was recruited for two tacos and a large horchata.
dead ass, was walking from high-school with a friend, and two sailors pulled up along side us and told us they’d buy us mexican food if we came with them to the recruiter station. and naturally, of course we got into the strangers car who promised us tacos.
Turns out they were two sailors who had just graduated basic and we briefly back of leave and decided to drop in on their recruiter. Anyways, they made good on their promise of tacos, so I went ahead and took the asvab then and there. Did well enough to get a 10 grand signing bonus offer on the spot (this was in 2001, before 9/11). And realistically, I didn’t have any plan for after I graduated (I was a few years early to graduate because I was doing dual enrollment). So I kinda just said… fuck it and signed up.
My thinking at the time? It was a guaranteed paycheck; I knew I wouldn’t starve; it would eventually pay for college; and it was going to give me a hiring preference for other federal jobs down the line. It would give me time to figure things out, and it wouldn’t be wasted time. Also, it would get me out of the house and let me “have a plan”, and maybe I’d actually get to see some places. Growing up as poor as I did, the military was basically the only option I would have to do those kinds of things.
Anyways, a few months later 9-11 happened. They gave me the option to drop (I had depped in but hadn’t shipped out yet). But nah. I stuck with it. It really did give me advantages later in life, and because of my rate and the timing, I didn’t get wrapped up in WoT/Iraq/ Afghanistan. Did my time, got out. Very close friends of mine weren’t’ so lucky.
And honestly it was a hugely eye opening experience and really guided my politics. I would download shows like Democracy Now! because I could download it for free and was something I could put on mp3 and rip to a CD. The US military, at least the enlisted ranks, is one of the most diverse work forces on the planet. It really gets you out of your space and shows you the true diversity of (at least, the poor/ working class) of America.
I’m communicating this not because I think it in any way justifies what I did or what new recruits might decide to do. I’m mostly putting this out there to give one example of what a teenager who goes and signs up might be thinking.
It was the kind of horchata you get in those styrofoam cups with the tiny little ball ice.
you know, the good ice.
You allegedly signed up when only the most tuned in people expected a war.
These fuckers are signing up when we just got done a forever war and are threatening to invade Canada. And the military is increasingly being used against the US domestically.
So fuck off with that “understand where the SS are coming from” bullshit.
Say you’ve got a young relative or some one you are mentoring who is considering this kind of decision?
How would you expect to convince them to make a different decision if you yourself don’t understand or can’t empathize with why they are making a decision?
Its a 🪱 🧠 level of understanding to think that understanding why some one makes the decisions they make or has the thoughts they have indicates in any way that you agree with them. Understanding why someone makes a decision they make is not equivalent to agreeing with them, and its a mental deficient to avoid understanding someone because you don’t agree with them. Its precisely because you don’t agree with them that you should strive to understand them.
No. I do understand them.
They are willingly signing up to hurt other people for their own benefit. Their neighbors to the North and their friends and family at home.
There is nothing more that needs to be discussed. It is not “mental deficient” to not spend time listening to a republican talk about how trans people should die and it is not “mental deficient” to not keep telling someone oppressing others for an orange rapist is evil.
children suffer from grandiose delusions of military service intentionally induced by state propaganda. they are victims before they are perpetrators; part of their victimization is being coerced into becoming a perpetrator: this is how a cycle of abuse perpetuates itself.
respectfully, ‘republicans talking about trans people need to die’ is non-sequitor; it follows from nothing said before in this comment chain and more importantly leads to nothing (as far as i can see anyway) that is relevant in this conversation about the reasons for military enlistment. also ‘counterargument from typo’ is a worse look than the typo itself. was it a good take on his part? no, saying you have brainworms was ad hominem insult that frankly just doesn’t stick. and yes, it is a little bit ironic to be calling another person stupid while making a syntax error. a very little bit ironic. comparing my sense of irony to my sense of elitism, i find in the balance a stereotypical human error that in no way actually detracts from any point they were attempting to make.
telling people that the military is not actually the propaganda they’ve been fed but would in fact be oppressing others for an evil orange rapist is a good thing. it does not conflict in any way with anything he or i have said; nothing that has been said by the other poster or me prevents you from making that valid observation to a potential recruit or even an active duty member. i unironically encourage you to do so. if you manage to break even one child out of the cycle of abuse and prevent a new ss member from being created, you will have done the world a great service.
i’ll take this opportunity to re-phrase something the other poster said, ‘just because you’re considering the perspective of another person doesn’t mean you’re endorsing that person or their behavior.’ now go do god’s work, and remember: empathy is not a sin.
I liked your post right up until the end… God’s work?? Really?
god is a quaint metaphor. you were with me until then, so it didn’t actually detract from any point i made. i was trying to draw attention to and defeat the concept of ‘empathy is a sin’ by explicitly countering it on its own terms. i can empathize with the christian perspective, but i do not sympathize with it.
No, it isn’t a non sequitor because it is the exact same thought process. To put it bluntly, it is “the intolerant left” stupidity.
Empathy is a two way street. When one side has decided the other side doesn’t deserve to exist? Sure, let’s meet in the middle! You maybe burn a few less crosses and you can just breathe 4 days out of the week. Isn’t the middle great?!?
And same thing there. One side has decided they are perfectly okay invading one of our oldest allies and stomping on the necks of protesters if it means they get to “see the world” and get a paycheck. There is no fucking middle ground there.
And you do that by making it damned clear that it is a “with us or against us” mindset. Either side with The People or oppress them.
So yeah. If that makes me part of the intolerant left because I refuse to entertain this shit? Oh no, your blessed god might disapprove of me! Because this isn’t even “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we invited a cheney to the DNC?”. This is very much “okay. Let’s meet in the middle. We’ll have civil rights every other day and we can just invade part of Canada. Nobody likes Quebec anyway”
friend, i think it needs to be stated explicitly that i have respect for you as a person, your opinion, and your right to express it. i also need to say that i think we agree more than we disagree. i am an atheist for a start, and as evidence i submit the fact that i do not capitalize the name of the fictitious god. i do not capitalize a lot of things, friend, but i especially do not capitalize the word ‘god.’ i was using god as a convenient topical metaphor. i think see what you meant with trans hate speech now, i was a little quick to dismiss that point. in a way i think i was doing the same thing i think you were trying to do talking about trans hate by making the comparison to ‘empathy is a sin.’ i was trying to refer to the kind of mindset that says “empathy is a sin” and say you don’t have to think that way, whether you believe in a god or not. it was clunky and clumsy if i have to explain it this much, sorry for that.
we agree. what i’m trying to point out is that in there are a lot of factors that have nothing to do with empathy or trans hatred or invading countries or oppressing minorities generally that do not occur to children before they walk into a recruiter’s office with civic duty and filial pride and escape from poverty in their heads. that it is possible to be a totally normal, morally sane, apparently well-adjusted human being who walks into a recruiter for a global war crime syndicate think they’re doing a right and good thing. telling such an apparently ‘morally sane’ person that they’re about to commit evil without explaining that to them, without overcoming almost 2 decades of programming inertia first is bound to backfire. the easiest and best way i know of overcoming that inertia is empathy. no gods required. and you don’t have to sympathize to empathize. that said, considering why someone acts the way they do does not obligate you to act that way too.
you don’t need to meet in the middle, and I am 100% not asking you to. i would respect your opinion a lot less if i thought you wanted to meet midway between fascism and whatever-we-had-before-that-we-could-pretend-was-democracy.
Yeah. I don’t respect anyone (as a person or their opinion) who take the stance of “You have to think about the jackboots and cut them some slack”
I don’t fucking care what brought them to the belief that it is okay to oppress and murder others for their own financial and societal gain. They have already pulled themselves out of society and they are monsters. And if the only way for them to respect the right of others to Exist is to give them a handy and buy them lots of tacos? Then they aren’t on our side and will flip the moment someone offers them more. So fuck those mother fuckers. They are the enemy.
And fuck anyone who wants people to feel sympathy for the folk stomping on necks and getting ready to unload the train cars at the camps.
im not asking you to cut jackboots slack. i am asking you to cut children who are intoxicated by propaganda slack. get it?
I very explicitly said i do not expect you to sympathize while you empathize and i take this as evidence you aren’t fucking reading me. my personal respect for you has been downgraded from friend to persona non-grata.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience.