The latest blog post about our .world and the Fedihosting Foundation. As you can read in the blog, the donations are no longer covering our running costs. If you are able to spare a few Euro’s or dollars or whatever currency, please check the list of our donation platforms in the blog.
Edit: I will add these to the blog: https://bunq.me/fhf (for EU bank transfers) https://github.com/sponsors/Fedihosting-Foundation (Github Sponsor)
Lemmy lacks essentially all mature moderation and administration controls a forum/social media platform would need to survive the broader internet back in 2014. Nevermind 2025.
It’s quite unfortunate.
The only savings grace is how small Lemmy is, it’s exposure is incredibly narrow right now.
Fediverse software in general tends to not be that performance friendly either. Leading to extreme hosting costs to scale up to even a meager number of users.and then fans out some level of duplicate resource requirements to federated instances.
Linearly, if lemmy.world (~15k MAU) was the size of reddit (~400mill MAU, being very conservative). It would cost ~$14,000,000/m in compute. Of course, the real number would be much higher due to scale ability complexities/technology. But either way that’s a lot of $$$.
Anyways, not to be a Debby downer, it’s just hard not to feel defeated by some of these things. And the tasks to make things better are massive.
Things are always getting better of course.
I had a look around the code a while ago, and not only is it lacking in moderation and administration, it’s also very much lacking in the distributed computing department.
It’s essentially set up in a way that all instances store close to all of the data and that with more instances the traffic and compute costs also scale terribly that way.
Lemmy is pretty close to the limit of its technical capacity.
I wish they had set Lemmy up as a bunch of basically phpBB forums with federated single-sign-on and frontend that can access the backend of all the separate forums transparently. That way each instance would have to only moderate, store and serve their own content instead of multiplying all the work for each instance.
Case in point: The €1950/month that the .worlds cost is close to €1 per active user per month. That’s a crazy amount.
For a phpBB forum with ~2000 active users you’d expect to pay maybe €50 per month.
That doesn’t seem right. There are some 37,000 active Lemmy accounts within the past month.
https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats&months=6
It’s well-known that lemmy.world is the biggest instance (or close to it). In addition, there are hundreds of thousands of Mastodon users, of which at least a good few per cent are mastodon.world users.
This would give the Fedihosting Foundation a user count on the order of 104 users. And since their hosting cards are on the order of 103 EUR, this would mean each user costs on the order of 10-1 EUR.
For comparison, Reddit reported 108 daily active users. They also reported cost of revenue at 46 million USD per quarter, meaning they spent on the order of 107 USD per month. So their cost per user is 107 USD divided by 108 users, or 10-1 USD.
https://investor.redditinc.com/news-events/news-releases/news-details/2025/Reddit-Announces-Second-Quarter-2025-Results/default.aspx
This seems to show that Reddit and Lemmy cost on the same order of magnitude to operate (which, keep in mind, can still mean a 2x or 3x cost difference).
You are right, must have misclicked somewhere for the lemmy.world stats. Here are the real ones: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/lemmy.world
15472 monthly active users.
But your Reddit numbers are off by quite some margin. First, you are comparing Reddit’s daily active users to lemmy.world’s monthly active users. Reddit has 10^9 monthly active users (1.21 billion, to be exact).
Also, the ~€2000 for lemmy.world are pure hosting costs (except of €153 for donations), but for Reddit you included their whole revenue. That’s not even their costs, that’s their income.
I dug through their Earnings press release, and also there they don’t specifically talk about their hosting costs. The closest I could find was “General and administrative” costs, which is what’s left over of their total costs if you don’t take “Cost of revenue”, R&D and marketing into consideration, and that’s $68.8 million per quarter (~$32 million per month), so 10^7, and that includes salaries and all sorts of other expenses down to the rent of the offices, the PCs their staff use and even the toilet paper. Hosting costs are at best a few percent of that figure, likely much less. So I’d knock that down to 10^6, likely even 10^5
That would give us $10^-4 to $10^-2 (if all administrative costs are purely hosting costs) per user. That’s about the difference between paying €2000 to host a Lemmy instance with 15k monthly active users and €50 for hosting a phpBB instance to do the same.
The 1700/mo is for all instances we host, with around 30k active users/mo. (If every active user would pay 1 euro per year, it would cover the costs) But it can’t be compared to Reddit. Reddit has employees. Employees cost more than infra. If I would pay myself and all the volunteers for the work we put in, the cost would be at least 10 times what it is now.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s close to heroic what you are doing, I wasn’t criticising your efforts or your calculation at all. I’m quite sure you shopped around as much as possible to find the best deal for hosting.
I’m just talking about the technology behind it, and sadly when it comes to Lemmy, it’s sometimes quite painfully obvious that the whole system was built by two randos without a background in distributed computing. It’s not exactly efficient.
In a larger corporation it would count as a good prototype, then they’d scrap it and replace it with the real product. Kinda like how Reddit did it, starting out on Python (web.py was built for Reddit, IIRC), and when they gained enough users they scrapped it and rewrote the whole thing using proper distributed computing technologies.
(Also not criticising the Lemmy developers, since they are two randos who put in a ton of effort to make this thing we can all use for free, and that’s pretty impressive too. But it’s just not on the same level as stuff made professionally by teams of hundreds of developers.)
The “cost of revenue” is the figure that I am using. In business, cost of revenue is defined as the costs incurred directly to deliver the product to the customer, which is basically just hosting fees.
Thus I believe 107 USD is correct.
So the difference is about one order of magnitude, which is still not insignificant.
Although, it would not surprise me if Reddit makes up most of that order of magnitude in terms of economy of scale, since at some point you would just rent some warehouses and run your own server farms, or at least negotiate better hosting rates if you’re spending millions on hosting every month.
Cost of revenue is $45.9 Million per quarter, so ~$15.3 per month. That’s even less than the administrative cost. And again, this certainly includes the salary for everyone working on running the services, including admins, content moderators, support and so on, and that’s going to be much, much less than the pure cost of hosting. (Yes, they outsource some moderation to volunteers, but certainly not all of it.)
15.3 million is the same order of magnitude as 107. I don’t see what the issue is with saying the cost of hosting is “on the order of 107” here, unless you somehow think they are spending US$5 million a year on salaries of people who are directly involved in the provision of the product to the users? That would be US$60 million a year or enough to pay 600 people a six-figure salary, which I guarantee their employees are not all so well-paid.
Include the salary for admin and mods in the figure for lemmy and we are not at 10^3 for Lemmy either. The figure for lemmy includes only the pure hosting cost, while the figure for Reddit involves a ton more.
Reddit has 2233 full-time employees. If only half of them are working on the product, and you take $60mio a year as the budget, that would be $53700 per year and would include taxes, benefits and all that. Doesn’t strike me as an unrealistic salary, for people like admins, mods, support, devops, provisioning and all that.
Remember, we don’t have “hosting costs” as a figure for Reddit. We have “Cost of revenue” and that includes anything that goes into running the site. We can’t compare numbers that we don’t have.
Based on the fact that four times as much was spent on R&D, and almost three times as much was spent on sales and marketing, and even administration spent 50% more, I’m pretty confident that most employees are not working on “cost of revenue”.
Your bringing up admin salaries is a perfect example of economies of scale. You can easily mind a 1,000,000-user community with ten or twenty moderators. But 10,000 users still need at least two or three people minding them. Anecdotally, smaller online public groups seem to have more troublemakers per capita, to an extent.