The world has known for awhile that things were shifting toward drone warfare, but China just showed off, Air recon/strike craft and VTOLs, Naval surface and subsurface drones, Ground light forces(robo dogs), and heavy forces(mini drone tanks).
They could effectively wage a war without losing a single soldier. Combined with their industrial capacity, and the defensive capability they showed off (Directed energy anti missile systems for example). Its now clear that China would defeat the US in a conventional war. Many of the things shown off in Chinas parade are technologies still in the prototyping phase in the US. The tech gap is closed. Or honestly in Chinas favor at this point.
They had for example drones integrated into their heavy tank forces. With launch platforms on top, and likely piloted from inside. So their tanks can now get a birds eye view of their surroundings at all times. This philosophy is likely an example of how theyll operate in general. With large armored ships, and vehicles acting as mobile control platforms for their vast drone forces. Its the modern equivalent of the air craft carrier. Drone warefare taken to its logical conclusion.
Our comrades in the PLA arent fucking around.
Its now clear that China would defeat the US in a conventional war.
Like others said, it’s already been clear, that the US wouldn’t be able to win a war of aggression against China on Chinese territory, since they can’t even beat Yemen.
But to call Chinas the strongest conventional military force is just wrong. The chinese military is focused entirely on defending China, because they aren’t trying to rule the world by force. The fact, that the US still exists and hasn’t totally collapsed yet is entirely due to it’s aggressive military stranglehold on most of the world. China couldn’t and wouldn’t do the same. To build the necessary bases all around the world would take many years and many wars would have to be fought over them.
China is winning economically, not militarily. And by using it’s defenses for holding out until the US collapses from it’s own internal contradictions.
Strong doesnt mean aggressive.
I know. That’s why I said they couldn’t. Not just they wouldn’t. At the current point in time, China is still weaker military than the US in that they are not able by far to force their will on most of the world anywhere near the way the US is currently doing, even if they were aggressive.
Why do you measure a nations strength by its ability to force its will on others? If the US were to bring all their forces to bear against China in a conventional war China would likely win. Them choosing to focus on the defensive doesnt make them weaker.
That would be like saying 1000 sword armed horsemen are stronger than a single fortress with machine guns on its battlements because the horses can attack other places and the fort cant.
‘Strong’ is a vague term that could mean ‘power projection’ or ‘resilience’ and I don’t think you folks need to decide which one ‘strong’ refers to by default when you already agree on the relevant details:
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US has power projection.
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China has no interest in power projection.
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US doesn’t have anywhere near enough power projection to defeat China in China.
Yes, you’re right. Well said, thanks.
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Why do you measure a nations strength by its ability to force its will on others?
Because that’s how most of the West defines strength. Their view is that if you aren’t forcing others to submit to your will, someone else will do it to you. You can see this way of thinking every time they start to panic about how bad it would be if the US was no longer the number one world power because in their minds that means that instead of imposing their way of life on others, other people would do it to them. It doesn’t compute that a nation could have strength and not use it to subdue others.
You also frequently see the argument being made that China’s military is weak because it isn’t constantly involved in wars and as a result lacks experience. A lot of people believe that if you don’t go to war regularly then you lose your edge and you will be conquered by others who do. This sort of mentality is extremely common in the West, but is absolutely alien to China which has more or less had the same borders since the Ming dynasty and has always been inclined toward isolationism over expansionism.
I’m really curious to know who would have the advantage in cyber attacks as well. China would probably knock out key US satellites at the beginning of any war. I wonder if the US would have anything other than its massive nuclear arsenal to pose any sort of threat to China.
The US certainly poses a threat. Theyd do massive damage im sure. China could withstand it but they dont want to sacrifice their peoples well being to a war if they dont need to.
As for cyber war im not too confident in the US. Many of their systems are outdated and even rogue hackers have gotten into them. But i also dont think China would target civilian infrastructure like power grids unless they had to. Since the human cost would be huge. I think their goal in a war with the US would be to simply outlast the US and let it collapse.
i don’t imagine most of us civilians will escape suffering when the war happens. The US just doesn’t give a fuck about its citizens.
Thats not what i meant. I just meant unlike Israel, and the US, China will likely abide by international law and not target civilian areas.
no i know, sorry, but i meant, no matter what happens US civilians will suffer this go around, but we should be so lucky to fight a war against China who wouldn’t purposely kill us at home
Have any cool sources on this new equipment? Sounds promising.
You can watch the parade on youtube. Actual info is going to be classified tho
The most scary thing for the west right now has to be the ability for China to organize these massive operations almost flawlessly. The US showed recently that they cannot even manage a small parade, while France also had a terrible Olympics inauguration, these things are often downplayed by people as meaningless but they really showcase the skill of planning and organizing. There is a clear erosion in these skills in the West while there is a clear refinement in China, i still remember the beijing olympics in 2008 being jaw-dropping and it’s been almost 20 years by now.
Exactly like say a war breaks out. Whoever launches fighters fastest takes the skies. China was launching them within feet of each other one after another. Meanwhile the US has theirs crashing while trying to land alone lol.
one thing that always strikes me is how disciplined and stylish the PLA looks in their parades. Not a single person out of step
BECAUSE THEYLL BE GENOCIDED IF THEY DOOOOOOOOO !!!
WONT ANYONE PLEASE THINK OF Xinjiang?! ANYONE?!
I think there was never any real doubt that Vhina would win in a conventional war against the USA. The factors were always so stacked against the Americans that winning for them has been largely impossible since even the early 2000s.
Not only is China’s mass manufacturing base far superior to the US, they also have the distance advantage (don’t have to carry materials across the pacific), and have clear win conditions (retake taiwan or repell the US) allowing for much better public mobilisation.
Furthermore, US military assets are constantly worn down and tied up in conflicts around the world. People believe that US troops are so experienced because of their constant campaigns. Pure idiocy. Modern war is not fought using cavalry charges and pikemen. Modern war is fought using equipment, which in the US case has been degraded by overuse (look at their own reports for the readiness of their weapons). And that weaponry is not easy to replace or iterate either because of the small production rates and long lead times for everything. The experienced soldiers that people glaze the US for come back in wheelchairs and with PTSD.
The number of disabled veterans has jumped by 25 percent since 2001 - to 2.9 million - and the cause really is no mystery.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/number-of-disabled-us-veterans-rising/
Yes, the nunber of disabled veterans in the US is more than twice the size of its entire army.
All of these latest technological improvements only change the odds even more to China’s side. A US-China war, if it happened without the use of nukes would likely not be WW3. It would be over fairly quickly, and afterwards US hard/soft power would start declining even more rapidly. There really isn’t any point for either US or China to launch massive land campaigns that take multiple years to finish.
And if the war happened with the use of nukes, it would also be over quickly.
Well from what Ive seen one of the biggest concerns for China is if the US were to just fortify a wide blockade thats out of range of many of their missiles and try to just mess with their ability to trade. Which theyd have to break and put their navy at risk. But with these new unmanned naval assets and air assets they can attack with 0 risk. Pilots and ships are safe they just build more equipment. Meanwhile the US has to defend and takes actual losses. Plus any equipment they lose is going to take longer to replace.
Its a fantastic position for China to be in.
The US enforcing a wide blockade against China would be unfeasible due to the sheer size of the Chinese coastline and the US dependence on Chinese trade. I do agree that better equipment does allow China to reduce losses.
I think by ‘wide blockade’, OP is referring to blockading the South China Sea by way of the rather small straits connecting it to the wider Pacific. The U.S. game plan is to park warships in the Strait of Malacca and the alternative straits (spanning from Taiwan, Phillipines, Indonesia, Malaysia; notice a pattern with US vassals and regime change attempts?), thereby blockading China.
Yes theyve also got south korea and Japan and their base in Okinawa too. They dont really need to do anything but make it unsafe for commercial shipping. As we saw with Yemen and their blockade companies wont take the risk. China would have to secure safe routes or ships will refuse to move.
These tariffs were imo a shock test to see which areas are hit worst by a loss of Chinese shipping to the US. So they can prepare for it.
AKA the first island chain
They also just have more dudes
3.5x the pop and 40% of usians obese
An armchair general comparing who’s country could win in a global conflict… because drones…really sort of betrays your own idiocracy. but hey you do you I guess. my dad could still beat up your dad.
oh no, a redditor escaped
Good trolling, I respect the game
You sound like the WW1 dudes who sent cavalry charges up against machine gun embankments.
…really sort of betrays your own idiocracy.
Do you mean idiocy? 🤓
Maybe, or maybe they just really wanted to smuggle in a eugenic dogwhistle
An armchair general comparing who’s country could win in a global conflict… because machine guns…really sort of betrays your own idiocracy. but hey you do you I guess
-you in like 1912
Good ole cavalry charge never disappoints!
“because drones” That’s exactly why Russia is going to mulch Ukraine and win the war. Why the frontlines of that war are so brutal and stagnant for a period of time. Why Russia is making breakthroughs. They are exactly why Iran was able to deprive interceptor payloads from the United States which created a shortage that American manufacturing is unable to remedy for a long time.
Drones are also capable of being made in your garage with materials purchased from your local hardware store.
It’s not “armchair general” to say that the technological abilities of one nation surpasses the other. That’s just basic analysis. Something “your dad” never taught you, apparently. Mine did though!
By the way, it’s “idiocy” you fucking idiot.
Wait, what Iranian drones have to do with statesian interceptors? I have only heard of Iranian hypersonic misiles being superior to statesian technology.
Honest question. I would like to know a bit more. I don’t like religious political power, but Israel and US are far, far worse than Iran. I would much prefer it had a secular government, but I love Iranian comrades as they are.
✊
The U.S had supplied Israel and armed their own bases with a significant amount of expensive interceptors that require a vast amount of rare earth minerals that are currently being choked by the trade-war between China and the United States.
When Iran and Israel had that spat; with Iran throwing missiles towards U.S bases; a significant amount of interceptors were spent and since then have been struggling to refill. Some projections don’t predict until 2040s-50s at current production. We all know how well U.S does with war-time production these days.
All of that with a couple hundred dollar drones and some cheap decoys.
Instance checks out
You may have misunderstood how these drones work when considering western drones seem to be more effective against unarmed women and children, journalists, medics etc. These non-western drones are instead designed with genocidaires in mind. Hope that clarified the confusion.
The US can’t even win local conflicts against rice farmers or goat herders wtf do you think they’re going to in an actual peer conflict?
China owns much of the US financially already. they’d only show force to hasten societal changes.
neither side would have anything to gain and too much loss to justify the conflict.
Rationally, the US would never attack China, but the US is no friend of reason. Education is already bad, and is having budget cuts. Trump is dismantling the department of education. Intense religious fanaticism shows itself via creationism, recurrent moral panics (Satanic panic, abortion, LGBT phobia etc). Racism. Political extremism. Intense obscurantism and scientific denialism. The secretary of offense is covered in tattoos glorifying the Medieval crusades and wrote a book title “American Crusade” explaining the US is in a holy war against Islam and China.
I fear the US might hate China more than it loves itself. I hope it implodes before catastrophe.
Much of the foreign observers of Weimar Germany thought that with the massive amounts of debt, social unrest and defeat of the nation after World War One that rearmament and going down the same path would be impossible. They were wrong.
Instead of a struggling nation though, we have a vastly well-equipped and armed nationstate with billions of dollars to throw and a global hegemony on trade that is being threatened day by day as the population is inundated with xenophobia, religious fanaticism and fascism. Make no mistake that it will be the United States to act irrationally.
We have objective evidence of drones being effective against U.S doctrine as they were being used and tilting the balance with Iran-Israel-U.S. asymmetrical engagements
Okay but if they did fight China would win
Yes fine sir, the Battleship will alway rule the waves! Oh, wait…
