Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @[email protected]

For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.

More context:

It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment

a note on the uyghurs (click to show

For the record, I believe that the Uyghurs are mistreated by the CCP, and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses, but there’s a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically (especially since it seems to target the religion, rather than the ethnic group).

Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262

He mentions this:

We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.

Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I’ll get to that later.

After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:


source

He said that it’s different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the “Tank Man” picture to [email protected], as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819

He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.

He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:

The relevant ones here are:

They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.

After a bit more arguing (I’m not posting the specific comments because it’s tedious, and they’re easy to see by scrolling through goat’s profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.

note on the post that comment was in reply to

I think this reply (by unruffled) was taken out of context. Unruffled is absolutely not defending what’s happening to the Uyghurs, they’re saying that a lot of people have a double standard, where they will not hesitate to condemn the Uyghur genocide, but hesitate on the gaza one, especially when the gaza one is more severe and urgent. To quote them directly:

Yes, that’s exactly what I was saying but of course they misrepresented it. You know exactly what Americans are like. They couldn’t give a shit about the uyghurs, except as a way to China bash and feel superior. I also explicitly said later in the comments I agreed it was a genocide. They’re just doin’ the usual bad faith takes.

Feel free to quote me lol

Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615

        • ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          25·
          1 day ago

          tankie calling a literal communist, anti-communism, because they speak of authoritarian faux-communists atrocities and crimes against humanity…
          i will hand it to you, it’s an effective troll technique you’re doing: pretend to be an exaggerated version of the most toxic subset of a group, then try your best to ruin any earnest attempt at conversation….
          oh and look, you’re on one of the tankie-triad instances… what a suprise.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            52·
            1 day ago

            sunzu2 is one of the more dogmatic anti-communists, not sure why they pass your test and I don’t. I literally pay dues and organize IRL. It isn’t trolling, either, I wouldn’t go through the effort of putting together Marxist-Leninist introductory reading lists or going to great lengths to dispel red scare-era mythos.

            There were no earnest attempts at conversation from sunzu2. You’re reflexively siding with them because they fit your anti-Marxist bias (further affirmed by your “tankie-triad” jab), but if you read honestly it’s immediately clear that I gave far more effort into that conversation than they did.

                • ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  25·
                  24 hours ago
                  1. communism = good, extremely good.
                  2. USSR, DPRK, CCP = not genuinely communist, actually terrible dictatorships…
                  3. the “facts” you post about them are mostly lies they’ve told (i know the west publishes lies as well, i do not trust the capitalists any more than dictators).
                  4. they are not entirely bad and have accomplished good things.
                  5. the war crimes, atrocities, and crimes against humanity far outweigh any good things they have accomplished.
                  6. marxism calls for a “transitional period” and a temporary “dictatorship of the proletariat”. This is a fatal flaw in marxism and largely why so many communist revolutions have ended up with endless dictatorships instead.
                  7. Dictatorships do not end voluntarily and are not temporary.
                    ——-
                    go ahead and pretend like you don’t understand that.
                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                    41·
                    22 hours ago

                    1. Yes.

                    2. AES states are genuinely socialist, they have economies where at minimum the large firms and key industries are publicly owned, some go beyond that. Also not sure why you’re mixing in states and parties together, or why you’re leaving out Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc.

                    3. Citation needed, otherwise this is just libel.

                    4. I’d flip it, no AES state is perfect, but have generally been more good than bad.

                    5. Citation needed.

                    6. No, this is a fundamentally flawed understanding of Marxism, socialism, and the dictatorship of the proletariat.

                    a. The Marxist understanding of the state is as an extension of the interests of the ruling class, not a class in and of itself. The state withers when production has been fully collectivized, as there is no class distinction. It isn’t a system to collapse into horizontalism, but a gradual sublimation of property from the various relations into one fully equalized and collectivized, run along common plans.

                    b. Socialism is the process of collectivizing production. Between economies that are run with private ownership principle and fully collectivized, communist society, there is the stage at which there is diverse ownership but public ownership is principle, ie governs the large firms and key industries.

                    c. The dictatorship of the proletariat is the rule of society by the proletatiat, not over the proletariat. This means that the bourgeoisie is stripped of their political power, and democracy is extended to the working class.

                    1. Marxism has never once advocated for the cartoonish system of dictatorships you think it has, and reality reflects that despite western propagandizing. Socialist states have been more democratic than western liberal democracy.

                    I understand you, in fact you’ve made my point for me by so clearly illustrating that you in fact don’t have any familiarity with the Marxist position. If you want a place to start, feel free to check out my Read Theory, Darn it! intro Marxist-Leninist reading list. At a bare minimum, at least make an attempt to understand the Marxist viewpoint of section 6 (the theory of the state) so you don’t make the same mistake in the future.

                    As it stands, it is lazy, bad-faith anti-communism on your part if you aren’t going to even try to understand the core difference between anarchists and Marxists. There exist better anarchist critiques of Marxists that actually understand the Marxist position, I would know as I used to be an anarchist.

                    Plus, you directly have posted hasbara equating Hamas to Israel, claiming Hamas slaughters Palestinians, both-sidesing a genocide. It’s incredible that you claim I’m the one minimizing atrocities when you’re running interference for Zionists.