Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @[email protected]
For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.
More context:
It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment
a note on the uyghurs (click to show
For the record, I believe that the Uyghurs are mistreated by the CCP, and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses, but there’s a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically (especially since it seems to target the religion, rather than the ethnic group).
Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262
He mentions this:
We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.
Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I’ll get to that later.
After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:
He said that it’s different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the “Tank Man” picture to [email protected], as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819
He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.
He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:
The relevant ones here are:
- [email protected],
- [email protected],
- [email protected].
If you look through other comments, they downvoted me and other users near-systemically, while upvoting comments made by goat.
For example, take a look at their (respective) lemvotes profile pages: https://lemvotes.org/user/[email protected] https://lemvotes.org/user/[email protected] https://lemvotes.org/user/[email protected]
They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.
After a bit more arguing (I’m not posting the specific comments because it’s tedious, and they’re easy to see by scrolling through goat’s profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.
note on the post that comment was in reply to
I think this reply (by unruffled) was taken out of context. Unruffled is absolutely not defending what’s happening to the Uyghurs, they’re saying that a lot of people have a double standard, where they will not hesitate to condemn the Uyghur genocide, but hesitate on the gaza one, especially when the gaza one is more severe and urgent. To quote them directly:
Yes, that’s exactly what I was saying but of course they misrepresented it. You know exactly what Americans are like. They couldn’t give a shit about the uyghurs, except as a way to China bash and feel superior. I also explicitly said later in the comments I agreed it was a genocide. They’re just doin’ the usual bad faith takes.
Feel free to quote me lol
Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile:
https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615
Sorry but you are just out of touch. Its a normal word used by the population at large. Thinking using the word “degenerate” means being a crypto fascist is top tier silly.
Try as hard as you might to lump me in with them because of the use of a common word (lol), I will never be any kind of fascist.
I actually think the short form “degen” is popular amongst the younger generations.
In any caze, it’s asinine behavior. It’s weak. You’re basically just looking for the easiest way to write someone off, like above. Instead of actually thinking about what I was saying, you just gave a trite remark. You protect yourself by turning everyone you disagree with into another fascist that can’t possibly have a point.
If you’re referring to other people as subhuman then people are going to come to conclusions about your worldview.
The post here is about the goat (and associated clowns) that specialize in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point.
Actual definition of degenerate when referring to a person:
“an immoral or corrupt person.”
Yes, the behavior is dumb in both cases. I’d argue what you are doing is worse since your decision hinges on non sensical surface analysis of the persons vocabulary.
I’ve also been called a tankie and I hate the liberal use of the word. It kind of shows just how off base your assumptions are.
It’s fascinating that you accuse me of a surface analysis and yet the point isn’t the surface meaning of the word, but the subtext.
When I get called a ‘degenerate tankie roach’ on meanwhileongrad I absolutely read dehumanization in the subtext. But maybe that’s just my depraved lack of morals at work again.
The word can be dehumanizing but it doesn’t make the person a fascist like said above. My point is that the word simply isn’t only used in those spaces and broad judgements based on it serve no one.
I didn’t mean to be insulting, I just called it surface level because it breaks apart on a simple statement like this:
“Elon Musk is degenerate scum”
The rest of the answer depends on usage statistics for the word, which we don’t really have. Anecdotally, I use the word and I’m not a fascist as far as I can tell.
I don’t think using degenerate automatically makes someone a fascist. It’s a red flag.
The reason it’s a red flag isn’t the insult itself, it’s the framework it imports. Degenerate has a history as a fascist/eugenic label for people marked “impure” or “subhuman,” and that baggage is still around today, like it or not.
Here’s a similar example; jokes/insults that punch down unintentionally. Like when people portray Trump, Putin, or Musk as gay or in drag to mock them, the intent may be ‘turnabout is fair play vs bigots’, however the mechanism is homophobia and transphobia. You don’t have to be a bigot to reproduce bigoted language, but it still reinforces a reactionary framing.
Going back to degenerate: you don’t have to be fash to use it, but it smuggles in their worldview. As anarchists/communists, we’ve got plenty of ways to critique the world around us without borrowing purity politics from the right.
🤦 If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.