Small-scale solar panels about the size of a door are poised to be plugged into more U.S. homes and apartments as homeowners and renters who want to harness the sun’s energy look for cheaper alternatives to rooftop installations.
The $2,000 plug-in solar system installed on Dwyer’s backyard deck in March consists of two 400 watt panels, an inverter, a smart meter and a circuit breaker. It saves him around $35 per month on his power bill because he is consuming less energy from the grid, but he said reducing his carbon footprint was his primary motivation.
2000$ is insanely expensive. It will take forever to pay for itself at that price. You can buy a kit like this for 300€ in Germany which will give you 100% ROI after a year.
I have to add that i know the Growatt inverter(Wechselrichter) that ships with this kit and the monitoring it has really sucks. It does its job of generating electricity just fine however, so if you dont need monitoring or can build your own then it doesnt matter.
The built in monitoring with most inverters (expensive or not) is proprietary garbage that only works with the manufacturers app which is often some weird chinese app that wants location permissions. You have been warned :D
But yeah they are becoming insanely cheap. Last i checked you do not need to register a balkonkraftwerk with your electricity company or landlord up to 800W so that makes things very simple.
In Germany it’s legal to back feed into your electrical system bypassing the need for a battery setup. In the US I don’t know of anywhere that’s legal.
Edit: I wasn’t clear that I’m talking about just plugging a system into the wall. I’m not referring to the relatively common practice of a professionally installed net metering setup. The difference is that a these smaller setups plug right in and do not require an electrician or arranging net metering with your company because you’d never produce more than you can use even at peak production hours. It’s a cost effective way to slow your meter down during peak production hours. Of course it’s more cost effective when you don’t buy the most expensive 400 watt system you can find.
That’s not what this. This is plugging straight into the wall with a small system. Against code pretty much everywhere. What you’re talking about is only economically viable for large systems that will generate more than the owner can use at peak hours. These small systems are much cheaper, do not require an electrician, and won’t generate enough power to require a net metering setup. The owner will use all of the power it generates even at peak hours. It essentially will just slow their power meter down as they draw less from the grid. These small systems are very common in Europe these days because their regulations have kept up better than ours. Also their outlets in general are safer.
Obviously where this person is that’s legal, so there are exceptions. I assumed this setup involved a battery because they grossly overpaid for a 400 watt system.
If they’re not generating enough to backfeed even at peak, and they can detect when the power cuts off and deactivate until it comes back, is there an actual safety/legal issue?
To plug a solar panel into a wall socket with the intention of adding power to the electrical grid, you need an inverter. Solar panels generate DC, the grid is AC. It is possible to make an inverter that will synchronize to the grid, and if there’s on input waveform, it just won’t put out AC power. “Not grid-forming” is the term I’ve seen used for this.
If you go to harbor freight, buy a gas-powered generator, build a suicide cable and plug it into a socket in your house without throwing your main breaker, you could be energizing lines that a lineman somewhere thinks are not energized, which could injure or kill him.
Worse, by generating your own power you’re reducing the money you have to pay to the power company. That’s punishable by flaying in 14 states.
Mostly a code and legality issue. Local regulations just haven’t caught up in most places. Also there’s no rights for renters for this stuff just about everywhere in the US.
Yup, got ripped off hard. Are there import restrictions in the US that prevent people from buying dirrctly from china? Because most likely this 2000$ one is just a rebranded kit from China anyway.
The US Commerce Department has announced plans to impose tariffs of up to 3,521% on imports of solar panels from four South East Asian countries.
It comes after an investigation that began a year ago when several major solar equipment producers asked the administration of then-President Joe Biden to protect their US operations.
Do you just not know or did you actually look into it?
Spoiler, but you just don’t know. It’s legal in every state.
However, most states do have anti-incentive because it’s corrupt as fuck. Not all states, but where “net metering” exists, they don’t actually pay you for power you generate. You only get a credit to your bill. The amount varies state to state, and they don’t allow you to apply it to bullshit fees and infrastructure cost that are passed along…
I calculated it and it amounts to 22.9% of what they would charge you.
My system is well over designed, and I produce way more power than I actually consume at peak. I am interconnected, but I refuse to send power back because there is zero point. They would not reduce the bare minimum bill that I have, which is just baseline fees they charge me for having my house connected. I don’t have a bill otherwise because I’m self sufficient for the most part.
I would run an extension cords to my neighbor’s houses before I send money back to this regional Monopoly. Therefore, I just leave the main disconnect off between me and the grid.
For reference, I have a 36 kW system with 100 kWh battery set up. The amount of power that I produce is based on the amount of power that I use, including to charge batteries. I average 125 kWh Daily production and my higher production days are about 160 to 170.
I’m talking about just plugging into an outlet. What you’re talking about involves a hugely expensive electrician visit. With a small plug-in system you didn’t need to involve the company because you’re going to use everything you generate normally.
2000$ is insanely expensive. It will take forever to pay for itself at that price. You can buy a kit like this for 300€ in Germany which will give you 100% ROI after a year.
Hey, as someone in Germany do you have a link for this? I would absolutely love to buy something under a grand and pop it on my balcony.
OBI / Bauhaus / Aldi sometimes have sales for full kits
Obi has this one at the moment for example: https://www.obi.de/p/2191115656515/solakon-balkonkraftwerk-900w-800w-solaranlage-steckerfertig-komplettset-photovoltaik-anlage-800w-kabellaenge-5m
I have to add that i know the Growatt inverter(Wechselrichter) that ships with this kit and the monitoring it has really sucks. It does its job of generating electricity just fine however, so if you dont need monitoring or can build your own then it doesnt matter.
The built in monitoring with most inverters (expensive or not) is proprietary garbage that only works with the manufacturers app which is often some weird chinese app that wants location permissions. You have been warned :D
But yeah they are becoming insanely cheap. Last i checked you do not need to register a balkonkraftwerk with your electricity company or landlord up to 800W so that makes things very simple.
Edit: The app in question.
TIL I’m selling solar panels in Germany.
4 years and 9 months to even the cost.
Honestly, not bad. Better roi than I was expecting.
If he’s saving $35/mo with that system, I’ll eat a bug. .
In Germany it’s legal to back feed into your electrical system bypassing the need for a battery setup. In the US I don’t know of anywhere that’s legal.
Edit: I wasn’t clear that I’m talking about just plugging a system into the wall. I’m not referring to the relatively common practice of a professionally installed net metering setup. The difference is that a these smaller setups plug right in and do not require an electrician or arranging net metering with your company because you’d never produce more than you can use even at peak production hours. It’s a cost effective way to slow your meter down during peak production hours. Of course it’s more cost effective when you don’t buy the most expensive 400 watt system you can find.
Around here (Maryland) it is totally legal. You just need an interconnect that disconnects the panels from the grid when the grid goes down.
We actually have a system called net-metering, where the utility will buy electricity from residential customers at retail prices.
That’s not what this. This is plugging straight into the wall with a small system. Against code pretty much everywhere. What you’re talking about is only economically viable for large systems that will generate more than the owner can use at peak hours. These small systems are much cheaper, do not require an electrician, and won’t generate enough power to require a net metering setup. The owner will use all of the power it generates even at peak hours. It essentially will just slow their power meter down as they draw less from the grid. These small systems are very common in Europe these days because their regulations have kept up better than ours. Also their outlets in general are safer.
Obviously where this person is that’s legal, so there are exceptions. I assumed this setup involved a battery because they grossly overpaid for a 400 watt system.
If they’re not generating enough to backfeed even at peak, and they can detect when the power cuts off and deactivate until it comes back, is there an actual safety/legal issue?
To plug a solar panel into a wall socket with the intention of adding power to the electrical grid, you need an inverter. Solar panels generate DC, the grid is AC. It is possible to make an inverter that will synchronize to the grid, and if there’s on input waveform, it just won’t put out AC power. “Not grid-forming” is the term I’ve seen used for this.
If you go to harbor freight, buy a gas-powered generator, build a suicide cable and plug it into a socket in your house without throwing your main breaker, you could be energizing lines that a lineman somewhere thinks are not energized, which could injure or kill him.
Worse, by generating your own power you’re reducing the money you have to pay to the power company. That’s punishable by flaying in 14 states.
Mostly a code and legality issue. Local regulations just haven’t caught up in most places. Also there’s no rights for renters for this stuff just about everywhere in the US.
Okay, that makes more sense, thanks
Thats exactly whats being described here tho…
The price threw me, it’s just unbelievable that it’s that expensive for a battery-less 400 watt system. This moron got taken.
Yup, got ripped off hard. Are there import restrictions in the US that prevent people from buying dirrctly from china? Because most likely this 2000$ one is just a rebranded kit from China anyway.
Tariffs, of course. Trump is doing the fossil fuel industry’s bidding trying to kill all renewables.
Sure but even with 100% tariffs it would still be cheaper to import.
@unexposedhazard @roofuskit @technology I believe the tariffs on solar panels are 2000+%.
We are the first victims of American Imperialism.
I mean …. The first?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ygdv47vlzo
Lmao you are right
Do you just not know or did you actually look into it?
Spoiler, but you just don’t know. It’s legal in every state.
However, most states do have anti-incentive because it’s corrupt as fuck. Not all states, but where “net metering” exists, they don’t actually pay you for power you generate. You only get a credit to your bill. The amount varies state to state, and they don’t allow you to apply it to bullshit fees and infrastructure cost that are passed along…
I calculated it and it amounts to 22.9% of what they would charge you.
My system is well over designed, and I produce way more power than I actually consume at peak. I am interconnected, but I refuse to send power back because there is zero point. They would not reduce the bare minimum bill that I have, which is just baseline fees they charge me for having my house connected. I don’t have a bill otherwise because I’m self sufficient for the most part.
I would run an extension cords to my neighbor’s houses before I send money back to this regional Monopoly. Therefore, I just leave the main disconnect off between me and the grid.
For reference, I have a 36 kW system with 100 kWh battery set up. The amount of power that I produce is based on the amount of power that I use, including to charge batteries. I average 125 kWh Daily production and my higher production days are about 160 to 170.
The point is to minimize the number or children who will die from the climate catastrophe.
Don’t be selfish.
I’m talking about just plugging into an outlet. What you’re talking about involves a hugely expensive electrician visit. With a small plug-in system you didn’t need to involve the company because you’re going to use everything you generate normally.
Welcome to America baybee!