Oh I didn’t realize I’m subscribed to a memes community on .ml I just followed the memes topic on Piefed topics are just basically a group of communities in piefed
“Russia invading Ukraine” is a western propaganda line, to be accurate it should be more along the lines of “Russia invades the nazi puppet government of the US empire to prevent further empire NATO imperialism and reestablish the Ukrainian peoples proper government”
Ukraine is known for corruption but had been improving
Ukraine has ethnic Russians in the Eastern areas of the country, but more Russians were sent into the region as agitators before the annexation of Crimea
Russia believes Ukraine as both a country and culture should not exist, according to their strategy published in Foundations of Geopolitics, which they have clearly been following the past few decades
Ukraine is a major grain producer for Russia and Europe, so the region is highly valuable
Ukraine had been discussing NATO membership before the war
NATO was created explicitly in response to fears of invasion of European nations by the Soviet Union, and the Russian Federation is seen as the inheritor of the Soviet Union
Russia considers NATO a nearly existential threat and has historically exerted political pressure over neighboring states to prevent them from joining NATO
In text, NATO acts as a mutual defense pact, among other provisions around economic and political cooperation
In practice, NATO has only been invoked in the Iraq War, attacks against Turkey from Syria and terrorist forces, and Russian incursions into Ukraine. Note that since Ukraine is not a member, NATO has not responded with the full provisions demanded in the text. It had been invoked by neighboring and nearby nations.
At the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine signed a treaty with Russia to hand over their nuclear weapons in exchange for guarantees of sovereignty and peace
During the war, Russia has targeted and destroyed both civilian and military assets and individuals in Ukraine
During the war, Ukraine has made drone strikes against military targets in Russia proper, including Moscow
Puppet government is a stretch and depends on your definition. Considering that Ukraine is not a member of NATO despite several economic ties with the US, I don’t think it’s much of a puppet state, if at all. (Edit: I say this not to suggest that NATO is subject to the US, but it would be highly beneficial to the US if Ukraine had become a member long, long ago.) The Ukrainian government being full of Nazis is generally considered fake news, but I haven’t seen evidence one way or the other.
NATO is not imperialist, as it does not establish hierarchical relationships. It is quite egalitarian. If anything, it encourages Europe to be more self sufficient, as the US wanted to minimize commitment to joining a European war. It is also meant to discourage and if possible prevent conflict among members. You could argue post-colonial economic dependence on the US, but… what countries don’t have that?
Also, to break the logic in the commenter’s argument… if a nation exhibiting Nazi behavior - that is, genocide or subjugation/mistreatment of a demographic under the government’s rule - then we should invade the following countries for the mentioned populations:
China for Uyghurs and arguably Mongolians
India for Muslims
US for immigrants
Several African nations
Myanmar for several ethnic groups
Israel for Palestinians/Arabs
Some middle eastern nations for denominations of Islam
Russia for homosexual people
While I’m a fan of… you know, not abusing populations, I’m also not a fan of invading sovereign nations. So Russia’s justification for invasion is a pretense and has a huge amount of historical context around it. OP’s argument is highly flawed.
I’ll only respond to items with cited evidence. Cited evidence should not include state-backed media or unreputable sources like some clearly extremist “news” site or individual blog.
If you’d like my citations, lemme know. Typed this up on mobile, so a bit of a pain. Corrections always welcome with proper evidence. Being corrected is good learning :)
This is an incredibly poor comment filled with unsupported gish-gallop. By making a mountain of claims without sourcing any of them, you try to hide behind the sheer numbers, then you quickly add that you only trust western, capitalist owned mass media. It’s incredibly dishonest.
Secondly, the fact that the current, far-right nationalist government in Ukraine reveres Stepan Bandera was even reported on by NPR in 2014. Bandera was a Nazi-collaborator that participated in the holocaust, the west backed the neo-nazis because they are the most violently anti-communist and anti-Russian.
Third, people do not say NATO is imperialist towards itself. NATO is an anti-communist, pro-imperialist millitary alliance of imperialist countries. The US is not imperializing Europe, Europe is vassalized but ultimately beneficiaries of imperialism. NATO destroyed Libya, Yugoslavia, organized terrorist attacks, encircles countries hostile to the west, etc. It’s the sheild that keeps the system by which the west loots and plunders the world in check. The fact that you don’t even know what leftists are talking about when we oppose NATO and are confusing it for being imperialist towards itself means you aren’t equipped to address the topic at hand.
Then, at the end, you throw in a mixed bag of claims without any backing. Israel should collapse so Palestine should be free. The US Empire should collapse, so the global south can be free. China isn’t anywhere close to as bad as the US, Europe, etc with how it treats the Uyghurs in Xjnjiang, read this Xinjiang Resource List.
If you’re on mobile, make shorter claims and back them up, don’t just list a mountain of unbacked claims and hope you aren’t called out on it.
So Russia is invading? That alone, pretty much regardless of the reason, is enough to side with Ukraine.
But that reason, even if true, is one of the stupidest reasons to invade. A softer, more propaganda focused approach would be both far more effective and far less costly, in both lives and resources. So either Russian leadership is so useless that an invasion is the best they can come up with, or they’re invading to take over Ukraine. Incompetent to the point of malice, or malice. Take your pick.
Ah yes, because the fascist one for sure isn’t the country where people are afraid to speak openly. Let’s conviently forget what it’s doing to say, feminist voices inside it’s own borders. I’m not exactly a fan of most governments, but to pretend that Ukraine was doing anything to justify being invaded by Russia is just sympathy for fascism.
That’s not fucking true they fucking killed people just like israel killed Palestinians just because a eastern country attacked a western company that doesn’t equal a good cause
Soz, but you’re just continuing to parrot empire propa, Russia had a very good cause to put an end to relentless US imperialism through NATO. Of course all the western media is going to exaggerate on everything to make them seem horrible to those who believe the propaganda
I’m sorry, but what’s the track record for ‘foreign intervention to fight imperialism’ after WWII?
I’ll tell you: disaster. Every, single, one, western or not.
I find this:
Russia invades the nazi puppet government of the US empire to prevent further empire NATO imperialism and reestablish the Ukrainian peoples proper government
So ironic it goes from being painful to hilarious to painful again. Somehow, this one liberation war, among all in the last 100 years, will be the justified and successful one. Like how Americans were so happy being stuck in what was supposed to be a quick ‘liberation war’ in Vietnam. To quote Johnson:
Why are these realities our concern? Why are we in South Vietnam? We are there because we have a promise to keep. Since 1954 every American president has offered support to the people of South Vietnam. We have helped to build, and we have helped to defend. Thus, over many years, we have made a national pledge to help South Vietnam defend its independence. And I intend to keep that promise…
…But yeah. Oh, this one is the exception if we keep going, sure. Nods head and pats back. We’ll talk again in a few years…
Dont get fooled by the .ml brigade. The large majority of communists are not tankies simping for imperialist Russia but very aware that those imperialist powers need to be fought to establish a just society. We mostly just focus on the imperialist country we are living in
Der hauptfeind steht im eigenen land (the main enemy is in ones own country) -Karl Liebknecht
This community has a real problem with defending Russia on the invasion of Ukraine. Think this is the last post I’ve seen from here.
Oh I didn’t realize I’m subscribed to a memes community on .ml I just followed the memes topic on Piefed topics are just basically a group of communities in piefed
and libs seem to have a real problem with defending the fascist nato army…
“Russia invading Ukraine” is a western propaganda line, to be accurate it should be more along the lines of “Russia invades the nazi puppet government of the US empire to prevent further empire NATO imperialism and reestablish the Ukrainian peoples proper government”
Not gonna convince you, but in case others read…
Puppet government is a stretch and depends on your definition. Considering that Ukraine is not a member of NATO despite several economic ties with the US, I don’t think it’s much of a puppet state, if at all. (Edit: I say this not to suggest that NATO is subject to the US, but it would be highly beneficial to the US if Ukraine had become a member long, long ago.) The Ukrainian government being full of Nazis is generally considered fake news, but I haven’t seen evidence one way or the other.
NATO is not imperialist, as it does not establish hierarchical relationships. It is quite egalitarian. If anything, it encourages Europe to be more self sufficient, as the US wanted to minimize commitment to joining a European war. It is also meant to discourage and if possible prevent conflict among members. You could argue post-colonial economic dependence on the US, but… what countries don’t have that?
Also, to break the logic in the commenter’s argument… if a nation exhibiting Nazi behavior - that is, genocide or subjugation/mistreatment of a demographic under the government’s rule - then we should invade the following countries for the mentioned populations:
While I’m a fan of… you know, not abusing populations, I’m also not a fan of invading sovereign nations. So Russia’s justification for invasion is a pretense and has a huge amount of historical context around it. OP’s argument is highly flawed.
I’ll only respond to items with cited evidence. Cited evidence should not include state-backed media or unreputable sources like some clearly extremist “news” site or individual blog.
If you’d like my citations, lemme know. Typed this up on mobile, so a bit of a pain. Corrections always welcome with proper evidence. Being corrected is good learning :)
This is an incredibly poor comment filled with unsupported gish-gallop. By making a mountain of claims without sourcing any of them, you try to hide behind the sheer numbers, then you quickly add that you only trust western, capitalist owned mass media. It’s incredibly dishonest.
Secondly, the fact that the current, far-right nationalist government in Ukraine reveres Stepan Bandera was even reported on by NPR in 2014. Bandera was a Nazi-collaborator that participated in the holocaust, the west backed the neo-nazis because they are the most violently anti-communist and anti-Russian.
Third, people do not say NATO is imperialist towards itself. NATO is an anti-communist, pro-imperialist millitary alliance of imperialist countries. The US is not imperializing Europe, Europe is vassalized but ultimately beneficiaries of imperialism. NATO destroyed Libya, Yugoslavia, organized terrorist attacks, encircles countries hostile to the west, etc. It’s the sheild that keeps the system by which the west loots and plunders the world in check. The fact that you don’t even know what leftists are talking about when we oppose NATO and are confusing it for being imperialist towards itself means you aren’t equipped to address the topic at hand.
Then, at the end, you throw in a mixed bag of claims without any backing. Israel should collapse so Palestine should be free. The US Empire should collapse, so the global south can be free. China isn’t anywhere close to as bad as the US, Europe, etc with how it treats the Uyghurs in Xjnjiang, read this Xinjiang Resource List.
If you’re on mobile, make shorter claims and back them up, don’t just list a mountain of unbacked claims and hope you aren’t called out on it.
Damn, you’re in deep. Good luck.
ROFL Says the liberal who refuses to see over the wall of western brainwashing
So Russia is invading? That alone, pretty much regardless of the reason, is enough to side with Ukraine.
But that reason, even if true, is one of the stupidest reasons to invade. A softer, more propaganda focused approach would be both far more effective and far less costly, in both lives and resources. So either Russian leadership is so useless that an invasion is the best they can come up with, or they’re invading to take over Ukraine. Incompetent to the point of malice, or malice. Take your pick.
Ah yes, because the fascist one for sure isn’t the country where people are afraid to speak openly. Let’s conviently forget what it’s doing to say, feminist voices inside it’s own borders. I’m not exactly a fan of most governments, but to pretend that Ukraine was doing anything to justify being invaded by Russia is just sympathy for fascism.
Removed by mod
Says the liberal who refuses to see over the wall of western brainwashing
Says the tankie who refuses to see beyond the wall of Russian brainwashing
“Der hauptfeind steht im eigenen land” -Karl Liebknecht.
True for both western and eastern country’s comrade ;)
Removed by mod
That’s not fucking true they fucking killed people just like israel killed Palestinians just because a eastern country attacked a western company that doesn’t equal a good cause
Soz, but you’re just continuing to parrot empire propa, Russia had a very good cause to put an end to relentless US imperialism through NATO. Of course all the western media is going to exaggerate on everything to make them seem horrible to those who believe the propaganda
I’m sorry, but what’s the track record for ‘foreign intervention to fight imperialism’ after WWII?
I’ll tell you: disaster. Every, single, one, western or not.
I find this:
So ironic it goes from being painful to hilarious to painful again. Somehow, this one liberation war, among all in the last 100 years, will be the justified and successful one. Like how Americans were so happy being stuck in what was supposed to be a quick ‘liberation war’ in Vietnam. To quote Johnson:
…But yeah. Oh, this one is the exception if we keep going, sure. Nods head and pats back. We’ll talk again in a few years…
Everyone arguing in this thread for two imperial powers lol the only people who make sense today are the anarchists.
Dont get fooled by the .ml brigade. The large majority of communists are not tankies simping for imperialist Russia but very aware that those imperialist powers need to be fought to establish a just society. We mostly just focus on the imperialist country we are living in
Both are bad in their own ways what you say is very true