Is he harming anyone by dressing like that? No, he isn’t - so why shame him for it? Let people do their thing. It’s bullies like this that make everyone so worried about what others think, to the point they can’t freely be themselves.
If you wouldn’t shame a guy for wearing a dress, then you shouldn’t shame one for dressing like a mall ninja either.
I’m not judging him for the outfit, really, I’m judging him for the attitude. His outfit just so happens to directly telegraph his attitude. If I saw a person wearing a dress that said “I like to fuck kids” I would judge that person for that.
He’s clearly, at best, extremely paranoid and shouldn’t be given a weapon.
His vest doesn’t say “I want to shoot people” - I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Having a badge with a swastika on it tells more about person’s ideological views than a full mall ninja outfit does.
Yeah no, this isn’t fucking laser tag, we’re talking about weapons of war designed to kill human beings. People like this need to be kept as far away from them as possible.
If you wouldn’t shame a guy for wearing a dress, then you shouldn’t shame one for dressing like a mall ninja either.
A disingenous comparison. It is almost like these are two completely different things with different contexts. Of course we should shame this potential mass shooter for this.
This is the exact same logic people use to paint trans people as perverts or potential rapists - not because of anything they’ve done, but because of the stereotypes their appearance triggers in others. You’re just doing mental gymnastics to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding two conflicting views at the same time.
You can tell things about people by the way they dress and the way they look in general. This guy’s decision to dress like that screams that he’s going to pull a gun when there is no need to. You know this, but you’re doing mental gymnastics trying to deny it because of trans people being persecuted by morons.
No, you can’t tell - you’re making assumptions. That’s exactly the same logic people use to justify shaming trans people, Muslims, or anyone else who “looks” like a stereotype they fear. Everyone convinces themselves their stereotype is the special exception. If you’re okay with that logic here, then you’ve basically conceded that appearance alone is fair grounds for public shaming across the board.
And the ratio of people dressing like this to actual mass shooters is so vanishingly small that your assumption is going to be wrong virtually every single time.
Yes these are assumptions and yes there’s always exceptions. For example, this could be a publicity stunt, maybe he was taking the piss.
But this case here is not the same as making generalizations about groups of people based on looks. It’s not the same as thinking that because someone is dark skinned and has a beard they’re a terrorist. There are different kinds of conclusions one can relatively safely reach based on outside appearance.
For example, if you see someone with cauliflower ears you can safely assume that they engage in some sort of wrestling, jiu jitsu martial arts sort of thing and conversely it might be a good idea not to initiate a physical confrontation.
My point is, drawing conclusions and forming a rough profile of someone based on looks is a natural process and one should not shut it down. Just keep an open mind at all times.
This particular guy in the picture is not profiled based on gender, nationality etc. It’s the context of the class subject and the very particular attire that make people jittery.
Not saying don’t give him the benefit of a doubt, but I do think you can pretty safely assume that he is probably not the most responsible person to give a lethal weapon to. That’s all.
I don’t necessarily disagree with that. You can make educated guesses about people based on appearance - it won’t always be right, but it’s not something to ignore either. At most, it’s grounds for suspicion, not for treating those assumptions as fact. To me it seems far more likely this guy is just socially awkward and thinks he looks cool or badass. I wouldn’t feel comfortable making fun of him for that - it just feels mean.
Yeah, well, I’m from a country where concealed carry permits don’t even exist. The only people with guns are basically the police, military and hunters. If someone showed up dressed like that to apply for a gun permit here, I’d personally see it as a huge red flag. But I have different standards for the US, where things are already quite different to begin with.
I enjoy a good sparring session too. It’s nothing personal - it’s just a shame so many people take it that way.
I don’t think it’s about his fashion choice. I think it’s about him showing up to the class to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon (that is what CCW is right? I’m not American) looking like he’s planning to shoot up a school, that’s putting people off.
I see plenty of people dress in ways that “put me off,” but I don’t shame them for it. That’s my issue, not theirs. Unless he’s literally shot up a school, he shouldn’t be treated as if he has. He hasn’t hurt anyone, and you can’t prove that he’s going to. I doubt you’d actually want to live in a world where people are judged based on what you think they might do in the future just because of how they look.
If someone walks into a bank wearing a balaclava I’m going to assume they’ll rob the place. If someone goes to a gun class wearing a school shooter uniform, I’m going to assume they’re a school shooter.
People casually wearing balaclavas in public isn’t a thing - if you walk into a convenience store or a bank wearing one, then yeah, statistically there’s a non-trivial chance you’re a robber.
But the ratio of people dressing like the guy in that picture to actual school shooters is so vanishingly low that your assumption is going to be wrong virtually every single time. And besides, this isn’t a bank or a school - there are people literally shooting just outside the window. If there’s any setting where showing up in tactical gear makes any sense, it’s here.
Is it questionable judgment on their part? Maybe. But is it grounds to treat them like a literal mass murderer? Absolutely not. That’s just people being mean bullies.
Who dresses like that? Including knee and elbow pads? Only weirdos who probably only carry a gun because they can’t wait to use it. It’s not a fashion statement. It’s creepy and no wonder people are weirded out by him wanting to obtain a firearm license.
You’re entitled to your opinion - but then you have no moral grounds to criticize people who apply that same logic to religious, racial, or sexual minorities who dress “out of the ordinary.” It’s the exact same guilt by association: they look like someone who’s done bad things in the past, therefore they must be bad too.
Also you’re ignoring that he’s taking a class about getting to carry concealed weapons. He’s not just dressing like this to do his errands. They’re not judging him based on looks alone. They’re judging him based on looks, actions, and a comment he made that he expects things could dissolve into a dangerous situation at a class. A mentally healthy person doesn’t expect things to pop off at a safety class. If he thinks it’s likely at a safety class, he definitely thinks things might pop off at a movie theater, a festival, a mall, a doctor’s office. I don’t want this nut showing up to any of these places with a gun, I don’t care how he’s dressed.
You’re being ridiculous. Wearing religious attire is not the same as wearing tactical gear. He’s not wearing a black trench coat or full camo or something that could be considered a style of clothing. He’s wearing protective gear, like he’s expecting a fight.
I never claimed it’s the same thing - you’re not accurately representing what I said.
Racial, religious, and sexual minorities all face prejudice based on their appearance, and the people holding those prejudices always have excuses for why they think it’s justified. This is no different - you’re judging someone purely on how they look rather than who they actually are.
Do clothing accessories have a limit as to who is immune to judgement? What if it’s a US flag? What about a thin blue line flag? What about a swastika armband? You keep saying that most people who wear tacticool mall ninja shit aren’t dangerous, and I’d counter with the fact that most US nazis are fat lazy slobs who won’t act on their hate. It doesn’t mean I don’t get to judge them for their shitty views or don’t want to be around them in general. Tacticool bros might not be as bad as nazis but they suck ass in general and I don’t want to listen to anything they have to say.
Above you said you thought he was autistic and so maybe that’s why you seem to be giving him the benefit of the doubt. What if you’re wrong about that and he’s just your average newsmax chud? Mimicking clothing of known hate groups isn’t the same as breaking gender norms, but I think you know that already.
Nobody is immune to judgment - I can’t tell people not to judge based on appearance since I do it too. You can absolutely make educated guesses about someone’s mindset from the way they dress, but it’s a huge leap to then conclude that they’re a potential school shooter and treat them that way. Making fun of them online on the other hand is just mean.
If someone wears a swastika armband, they’re not leaving much to guess - they’re openly broadcasting their beliefs. That’s not the same as someone in tactical or military-style gear. This example hits close to home for me because I also like military apparel. I wouldn’t wear it to the grocery store, but I’d be pretty offended if people mocked me on a hiking trail for looking more of like a soldier than an outdoorsman and especially if they went as far as to call me a school shooter or a nazi because of it.
Looking at him, I’d say there’s a high likelihood he’s autistic. We’re generally not the best at judging what’s “appropriate” in a social setting. There’s nothing wrong with going up and telling him directly, but shaming isn’t helpful - especially when it’s done behind his back.
Why are you bending over backwards to defend this shit? It’s bizarre…
When people (usually disingenuously) harp on about “mental health funding” after some mass shooting event, this is the shit they’re supposedly talking about. These are the people we are supposed to be flagging before they get the go ahead to fucking conceal carry.
It’s not a joke, giving this guy guns could literally mean life or death for people. I think it’s OK to maybe be extra cautious when it comes to weapons designed to end human life. But that’s just me.
Why are you bending over backwards to defend this shit? It’s bizarre…
Because I’m willing to stand behind my principles even when the entire mob is against me. If there’s one thing I despise in this world, it’s bullies, and that’s what I’m calling you all out on. All you have seen is one picture and you’ve decided that he’s a future school shooter and a nazi. That is absolutely ridiculous leap to make. For all I know he could be a perfectly decent human being with severe case of lack of situational awareness and social norms. I’m however willing to grant him the benefit of the doubt and defend him from the blood thirsty mob even at my personal expense because I think it’s the right thing to do.
Sometimes it’s good to re-evaluate those beliefs in light of new arguments that maybe you hadn’t considered. Nobody is going to judge you here, it’s ok to change your mind.
There is no “autistic look” and people with autism often have sensitivity issues, meaning coarse clothes that bind at the joints aren’t likely to be chosen by them.
Is he harming anyone by dressing like that? No, he isn’t - so why shame him for it? Let people do their thing. It’s bullies like this that make everyone so worried about what others think, to the point they can’t freely be themselves.
If you wouldn’t shame a guy for wearing a dress, then you shouldn’t shame one for dressing like a mall ninja either.
I’m not judging him for the outfit, really, I’m judging him for the attitude. His outfit just so happens to directly telegraph his attitude. If I saw a person wearing a dress that said “I like to fuck kids” I would judge that person for that.
He’s clearly, at best, extremely paranoid and shouldn’t be given a weapon.
His vest doesn’t say “I want to shoot people” - I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Having a badge with a swastika on it tells more about person’s ideological views than a full mall ninja outfit does.
Yeah no, this isn’t fucking laser tag, we’re talking about weapons of war designed to kill human beings. People like this need to be kept as far away from them as possible.
A disingenous comparison. It is almost like these are two completely different things with different contexts. Of course we should shame this potential mass shooter for this.
This is the exact same logic people use to paint trans people as perverts or potential rapists - not because of anything they’ve done, but because of the stereotypes their appearance triggers in others. You’re just doing mental gymnastics to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding two conflicting views at the same time.
You can tell things about people by the way they dress and the way they look in general. This guy’s decision to dress like that screams that he’s going to pull a gun when there is no need to. You know this, but you’re doing mental gymnastics trying to deny it because of trans people being persecuted by morons.
No, you can’t tell - you’re making assumptions. That’s exactly the same logic people use to justify shaming trans people, Muslims, or anyone else who “looks” like a stereotype they fear. Everyone convinces themselves their stereotype is the special exception. If you’re okay with that logic here, then you’ve basically conceded that appearance alone is fair grounds for public shaming across the board.
And the ratio of people dressing like this to actual mass shooters is so vanishingly small that your assumption is going to be wrong virtually every single time.
Yes these are assumptions and yes there’s always exceptions. For example, this could be a publicity stunt, maybe he was taking the piss. But this case here is not the same as making generalizations about groups of people based on looks. It’s not the same as thinking that because someone is dark skinned and has a beard they’re a terrorist. There are different kinds of conclusions one can relatively safely reach based on outside appearance. For example, if you see someone with cauliflower ears you can safely assume that they engage in some sort of wrestling, jiu jitsu martial arts sort of thing and conversely it might be a good idea not to initiate a physical confrontation.
My point is, drawing conclusions and forming a rough profile of someone based on looks is a natural process and one should not shut it down. Just keep an open mind at all times.
This particular guy in the picture is not profiled based on gender, nationality etc. It’s the context of the class subject and the very particular attire that make people jittery. Not saying don’t give him the benefit of a doubt, but I do think you can pretty safely assume that he is probably not the most responsible person to give a lethal weapon to. That’s all.
I don’t necessarily disagree with that. You can make educated guesses about people based on appearance - it won’t always be right, but it’s not something to ignore either. At most, it’s grounds for suspicion, not for treating those assumptions as fact. To me it seems far more likely this guy is just socially awkward and thinks he looks cool or badass. I wouldn’t feel comfortable making fun of him for that - it just feels mean.
Fair enough, but this is not about making fun of him, it’s about giving him a gun or not…
Edit: love a level headed discussion btw, kudos! It’s so rare these days, people just downvote instead…
Yeah, well, I’m from a country where concealed carry permits don’t even exist. The only people with guns are basically the police, military and hunters. If someone showed up dressed like that to apply for a gun permit here, I’d personally see it as a huge red flag. But I have different standards for the US, where things are already quite different to begin with.
I enjoy a good sparring session too. It’s nothing personal - it’s just a shame so many people take it that way.
I don’t think it’s about his fashion choice. I think it’s about him showing up to the class to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon (that is what CCW is right? I’m not American) looking like he’s planning to shoot up a school, that’s putting people off.
I see plenty of people dress in ways that “put me off,” but I don’t shame them for it. That’s my issue, not theirs. Unless he’s literally shot up a school, he shouldn’t be treated as if he has. He hasn’t hurt anyone, and you can’t prove that he’s going to. I doubt you’d actually want to live in a world where people are judged based on what you think they might do in the future just because of how they look.
If someone walks into a bank wearing a balaclava I’m going to assume they’ll rob the place. If someone goes to a gun class wearing a school shooter uniform, I’m going to assume they’re a school shooter.
People casually wearing balaclavas in public isn’t a thing - if you walk into a convenience store or a bank wearing one, then yeah, statistically there’s a non-trivial chance you’re a robber.
But the ratio of people dressing like the guy in that picture to actual school shooters is so vanishingly low that your assumption is going to be wrong virtually every single time. And besides, this isn’t a bank or a school - there are people literally shooting just outside the window. If there’s any setting where showing up in tactical gear makes any sense, it’s here.
Is it questionable judgment on their part? Maybe. But is it grounds to treat them like a literal mass murderer? Absolutely not. That’s just people being mean bullies.
Who dresses like that? Including knee and elbow pads? Only weirdos who probably only carry a gun because they can’t wait to use it. It’s not a fashion statement. It’s creepy and no wonder people are weirded out by him wanting to obtain a firearm license.
You’re entitled to your opinion - but then you have no moral grounds to criticize people who apply that same logic to religious, racial, or sexual minorities who dress “out of the ordinary.” It’s the exact same guilt by association: they look like someone who’s done bad things in the past, therefore they must be bad too.
Also you’re ignoring that he’s taking a class about getting to carry concealed weapons. He’s not just dressing like this to do his errands. They’re not judging him based on looks alone. They’re judging him based on looks, actions, and a comment he made that he expects things could dissolve into a dangerous situation at a class. A mentally healthy person doesn’t expect things to pop off at a safety class. If he thinks it’s likely at a safety class, he definitely thinks things might pop off at a movie theater, a festival, a mall, a doctor’s office. I don’t want this nut showing up to any of these places with a gun, I don’t care how he’s dressed.
You’re being ridiculous. Wearing religious attire is not the same as wearing tactical gear. He’s not wearing a black trench coat or full camo or something that could be considered a style of clothing. He’s wearing protective gear, like he’s expecting a fight.
I never claimed it’s the same thing - you’re not accurately representing what I said.
Racial, religious, and sexual minorities all face prejudice based on their appearance, and the people holding those prejudices always have excuses for why they think it’s justified. This is no different - you’re judging someone purely on how they look rather than who they actually are.
Do clothing accessories have a limit as to who is immune to judgement? What if it’s a US flag? What about a thin blue line flag? What about a swastika armband? You keep saying that most people who wear tacticool mall ninja shit aren’t dangerous, and I’d counter with the fact that most US nazis are fat lazy slobs who won’t act on their hate. It doesn’t mean I don’t get to judge them for their shitty views or don’t want to be around them in general. Tacticool bros might not be as bad as nazis but they suck ass in general and I don’t want to listen to anything they have to say.
Above you said you thought he was autistic and so maybe that’s why you seem to be giving him the benefit of the doubt. What if you’re wrong about that and he’s just your average newsmax chud? Mimicking clothing of known hate groups isn’t the same as breaking gender norms, but I think you know that already.
Nobody is immune to judgment - I can’t tell people not to judge based on appearance since I do it too. You can absolutely make educated guesses about someone’s mindset from the way they dress, but it’s a huge leap to then conclude that they’re a potential school shooter and treat them that way. Making fun of them online on the other hand is just mean.
If someone wears a swastika armband, they’re not leaving much to guess - they’re openly broadcasting their beliefs. That’s not the same as someone in tactical or military-style gear. This example hits close to home for me because I also like military apparel. I wouldn’t wear it to the grocery store, but I’d be pretty offended if people mocked me on a hiking trail for looking more of like a soldier than an outdoorsman and especially if they went as far as to call me a school shooter or a nazi because of it.
This is a safety training session, it’s inappropriate to wear tactical stuff like you’re going to get in a fight.
Looking at him, I’d say there’s a high likelihood he’s autistic. We’re generally not the best at judging what’s “appropriate” in a social setting. There’s nothing wrong with going up and telling him directly, but shaming isn’t helpful - especially when it’s done behind his back.
Why are you bending over backwards to defend this shit? It’s bizarre…
When people (usually disingenuously) harp on about “mental health funding” after some mass shooting event, this is the shit they’re supposedly talking about. These are the people we are supposed to be flagging before they get the go ahead to fucking conceal carry.
It’s not a joke, giving this guy guns could literally mean life or death for people. I think it’s OK to maybe be extra cautious when it comes to weapons designed to end human life. But that’s just me.
Because I’m willing to stand behind my principles even when the entire mob is against me. If there’s one thing I despise in this world, it’s bullies, and that’s what I’m calling you all out on. All you have seen is one picture and you’ve decided that he’s a future school shooter and a nazi. That is absolutely ridiculous leap to make. For all I know he could be a perfectly decent human being with severe case of lack of situational awareness and social norms. I’m however willing to grant him the benefit of the doubt and defend him from the blood thirsty mob even at my personal expense because I think it’s the right thing to do.
Sometimes it’s good to re-evaluate those beliefs in light of new arguments that maybe you hadn’t considered. Nobody is going to judge you here, it’s ok to change your mind.
There’s a lot of research showing a link between autism and mass shootings. It’s not a cause, but there’s a link
Looking at him? Autistic? From a picture? Get real lol
Good argument.
There is no “autistic look” and people with autism often have sensitivity issues, meaning coarse clothes that bind at the joints aren’t likely to be chosen by them.