Imagine someone trying to claim to be pro-pedestrian and fuck-cars and yet claiming crosswalks are “pedestrian spaces”. What are you, a car company lobbyists? Not just one, but two, lol
“Sure, we believe in pedestrian spaces” - proceeds to slap white stripes on an eight car lane street with narrow one meter sidewalks.
Although I do love to hate on a lot of the single-mindedness of this sub, I’ll do the guys in it a favor and assume this argument is an outlier. Otherwise, it’s just embarrassing.
Crosswalks are literally the intersection of pedestrian spaces and motorized spaces. It doesn’t matter what facilities they’re provided with, it’s a place where automobiles operate in the same space as pedestrians all the time.
I’m sorry, but your mental gymnastics are just embarrassing. If you are going to be snarky, have better, more relevant arguments. Gotta love how you put “all the time” in italics, as if that’s some specially strong point. Hopefully no one takes it to heart and tries to cross them when the traffic lights don’t allow them to.
The whole point of crosswalks is that their use isn’t supposed to overlap between pedestrians and cars. You will literally fail your driving exam if your “automobile operates in the same space as pedestrians” on a crosswalk. I feel silly just pointing out the obvious.
Yes, this is precisely what I mean by “bad faith.” Even in the most terminally car brain culture there is effort made to separate pedestrian and automobile traffic, even if that means time interleaving on the same roadway. Very few places in the developed world allow pedestrians and automobiles to share the same roadway at the same time the way bicycles and pedestrians can.
The simple and (I thought) self evident premise here is that cyclists and pedestrians can coexist in ways pedestrians and motor vehicles cannot. Blurring the line between a bicycle and a moped serves nobody besides those who seek to perpetuate the exact same legacy ideas which currently force pedestrians and motor vehicles into needless, dangerous conflict.
Furthermore, for all modes of transport (even boats), crossing situations are where most crashes occur; overtaking crashes are relatively rare. The reason for not mixing vehicle and pedestrian traffic moving in the same direction (and the reason for creating sidewalks in the first place) is for speed and convenience of drivers, at the cost of pedestrian safety. Even in places where people walk in the street, crossings are where they most often get killed.
It’s bad faith to claim that city streets are exclusively for cars. City streets have always been mixed use spaces historically.
Cars are so dangerous they annexed the mixed use spaces they run in. Cars are a threat to everything around them. Bikes are forced into conflict with pedestrians as much as they are because of the amount space that has been seized by cars.
Roads need to be rebuilt to eliminate or control cars to make them safe to those around them. Cars are the most dangerous thing on the roads, and should be treated as the threat that they are.
I’m upset because the government put a bunch of roads in between my house and the other places I like to go, so I have to be around cars in order to get places. I don’t think that’s fair.
Again, nothing is preventing you from having a moped, or riding a bicycle on the street. However, there are many other places in the world where there are trails and other infrastructure meant to be shared with pedestrians, which is why it is important that the distinction between bicycle and moped/motorcycle be understood.
I can’t speak for elsewhere but in much of Canada the situation is opposite what you’re suggesting. Bicycles are legally considered vehicles and are expected to use the road with other traffic if no bicycle lanes or designated paths are available. It is illegal for them to share the sidewalk with pedestrians.
Here’s a lot of places where pedestrians and cyclists share the same walkways, maybe it’s the same where the other commenter is from? It can definitely be a problem of infrastructure; even ones biking without electricity often go waaayyy too fast for it to be safe at all.
I walk with my dog a lot and almost every day there’s a situation where some crazy cyclists flies past us like 30km/h and doesn’t even ring the bell. If I had a more reactive dog it would be a nightmare, a lot of of dogs are triggered to chase if something “runs” past like that, even if they’re super friendly and wouldn’t actually do anything if they caught the “prey”. I don’t understand how the cyclists don’t care for their own safety even if they clearly don’t care about others; if a bigger dog lunges at them (which is almost impossible to prevent with zero warning time, even if they dog was held by the collar) they’re the ones that could fly to the asphalt from high and hard. I’m surprised more small children aren’t hit by bikes as well, since the cyclists don’t seem to slow down for them either.
And yes cars are often a problem as well and the crosswalks can be horribly unsafe because of idiots driving, but at least here the cyclists too are causing constant danger to pedestrians - because of the bad desing. Even without ebikes bike lanes are a must just as roads for cars are
Cars operate in pedestrian spaces all the time.
You make it sound like cars are driving over the sidewalk at the same propensity and speed that they are driving on the road.
Never seen a crosswalk?
Imagine someone trying to claim to be pro-pedestrian and fuck-cars and yet claiming crosswalks are “pedestrian spaces”. What are you, a car company lobbyists? Not just one, but two, lol
“Sure, we believe in pedestrian spaces” - proceeds to slap white stripes on an eight car lane street with narrow one meter sidewalks.
Although I do love to hate on a lot of the single-mindedness of this sub, I’ll do the guys in it a favor and assume this argument is an outlier. Otherwise, it’s just embarrassing.
Crosswalks are literally the intersection of pedestrian spaces and motorized spaces. It doesn’t matter what facilities they’re provided with, it’s a place where automobiles operate in the same space as pedestrians all the time.
I’m sorry, but your mental gymnastics are just embarrassing. If you are going to be snarky, have better, more relevant arguments. Gotta love how you put “all the time” in italics, as if that’s some specially strong point. Hopefully no one takes it to heart and tries to cross them when the traffic lights don’t allow them to.
The whole point of crosswalks is that their use isn’t supposed to overlap between pedestrians and cars. You will literally fail your driving exam if your “automobile operates in the same space as pedestrians” on a crosswalk. I feel silly just pointing out the obvious.
Yes, this is precisely what I mean by “bad faith.” Even in the most terminally car brain culture there is effort made to separate pedestrian and automobile traffic, even if that means time interleaving on the same roadway. Very few places in the developed world allow pedestrians and automobiles to share the same roadway at the same time the way bicycles and pedestrians can.
The simple and (I thought) self evident premise here is that cyclists and pedestrians can coexist in ways pedestrians and motor vehicles cannot. Blurring the line between a bicycle and a moped serves nobody besides those who seek to perpetuate the exact same legacy ideas which currently force pedestrians and motor vehicles into needless, dangerous conflict.
What’s a “crosswalk” then?
That’s what a crosswalk is.
Furthermore, for all modes of transport (even boats), crossing situations are where most crashes occur; overtaking crashes are relatively rare. The reason for not mixing vehicle and pedestrian traffic moving in the same direction (and the reason for creating sidewalks in the first place) is for speed and convenience of drivers, at the cost of pedestrian safety. Even in places where people walk in the street, crossings are where they most often get killed.
It’s bad faith to claim that city streets are exclusively for cars. City streets have always been mixed use spaces historically.
Cars are so dangerous they annexed the mixed use spaces they run in. Cars are a threat to everything around them. Bikes are forced into conflict with pedestrians as much as they are because of the amount space that has been seized by cars.
Roads need to be rebuilt to eliminate or control cars to make them safe to those around them. Cars are the most dangerous thing on the roads, and should be treated as the threat that they are.
I’m upset because the government put a bunch of roads in between my house and the other places I like to go, so I have to be around cars in order to get places. I don’t think that’s fair.
Again, nothing is preventing you from having a moped, or riding a bicycle on the street. However, there are many other places in the world where there are trails and other infrastructure meant to be shared with pedestrians, which is why it is important that the distinction between bicycle and moped/motorcycle be understood.
I can’t speak for elsewhere but in much of Canada the situation is opposite what you’re suggesting. Bicycles are legally considered vehicles and are expected to use the road with other traffic if no bicycle lanes or designated paths are available. It is illegal for them to share the sidewalk with pedestrians.
This is, however, very rarely enforced.
Here’s a lot of places where pedestrians and cyclists share the same walkways, maybe it’s the same where the other commenter is from? It can definitely be a problem of infrastructure; even ones biking without electricity often go waaayyy too fast for it to be safe at all.
I walk with my dog a lot and almost every day there’s a situation where some crazy cyclists flies past us like 30km/h and doesn’t even ring the bell. If I had a more reactive dog it would be a nightmare, a lot of of dogs are triggered to chase if something “runs” past like that, even if they’re super friendly and wouldn’t actually do anything if they caught the “prey”. I don’t understand how the cyclists don’t care for their own safety even if they clearly don’t care about others; if a bigger dog lunges at them (which is almost impossible to prevent with zero warning time, even if they dog was held by the collar) they’re the ones that could fly to the asphalt from high and hard. I’m surprised more small children aren’t hit by bikes as well, since the cyclists don’t seem to slow down for them either.
And yes cars are often a problem as well and the crosswalks can be horribly unsafe because of idiots driving, but at least here the cyclists too are causing constant danger to pedestrians - because of the bad desing. Even without ebikes bike lanes are a must just as roads for cars are
Mixing pedestrians, bicycles, and motorbikes on the same path is fine though, motorbikes can go around pedestrians in a way cars can’t.