• Deceptichum@quokk.au
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    2 days ago

    Wow this is really vulgar. You could catch more trump supporters with honey than vinegar words.

      • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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        2 days ago

        A trump supporter today is a friend tomorrow! Reach across the aisle and stop the hate.

        • cannedtuna@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          No. You can’t negotiate with fascists. Attempting to “reach across the isle” is what got us here. You can’t appeal to the moderate or conservative because all it does is drag you further into their mire.

          • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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            2 days ago

            History says otherwise. Through peaceful means India was able to become independent, gay people gained rights, black people gained rights, women people gained rights.

            Don’t drag yourself into the mire fighting them, take the high road and uplift them along with you.

            • cannedtuna@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Your mistaken. Pride day began as a riot. MLK may have advocated for non-aggressive protesting, but Malcom X was pivotal. India and women certainly didn’t win rights through capitulation to the oppressors. Gandhi may not have been violent, but he promoted civil disobedience. You sound exactly like the kind of person MLK warns about.

              I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

              You want people to “reach across the isle” and to try and win people over who have no intention of being agreeable or receptive towards a mutually beneficial outcome and would negotiate in bad faith.

              You can say but look at how peaceful the gays, blacks, women, India, etc were but that’s the idealistic textbook view of history after all is said and done. It ignores the real struggle and fight it took by those groups to win rights by being impossible to ignore. You’re either incredibly naive or arguing disingenuously.

        • DearOldGrandma@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Why should we tolerate the intolerant? It’s been over 10yrs, and it’s only gotten worse with each year. That’s how we got in this mess, and it’s obvious humanity’s entire history of compromising with fascists and proto-fascists only allowed for the civil rights of the time to be eroded, or their progress impeded.

          A Trump supporter today is still a Trump supporter. Only when they stop supporting Trump and actually prove they’re trying to change their ideology will I stop ridiculing these people.

          • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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            2 days ago

            Because intolerance of intolerance is intolerant, and we don’t tolerate intolerant behaviour. The only way out of this mess is moving forward and looking beyond the unjustifiable anger we feel today. These are humans, with friends and families, they even have jobs like you or I; Such as ICE agent, police officer, or TSA agent.

            Put yourself in their shoes - would you like it if someone did to you, what you want to do to them?

            • cannedtuna@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              No. You are fundamentally wrong here. Tolerance of the intolerant only breeds further intolerance. It’s a classic paradox as the intolerant don’t give two shits about tolerating anyone so giving any ground to them only serves to drag tolerance further to their side.

              • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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                1 day ago

                So vote them out next election! if we start donating today, we can gather a big enough campaign war chest to really show them.

                If a million of us each donate a dollar, we can beat any billionaire.

            • DearOldGrandma@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              That’s the problem, though. For years I tried to understand, and for years I watched as they didn’t do that. Instead, I watched as conservatives fought every bit of progressive legislation. I heard all the arguments that the Left was becoming more radical, but I saw the Left increasingly fail to enact progressive legislation as conservatives were successfully combating years-old policies. And conservatives have been doing this long, long before I even came around.

              I tried to understand their economic and social justifications behind their arguments, but none of them were representative of the US they taught me about. So I’m done trying. I started giving up in 2012, and I should have given up 12 years before that. If more people had quit trying to appeal to conservatives sooner, maybe we wouldn’t be dealing with this.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      You’re right we need coy little sayings we can say out loud and snicker to all my friends because the teacher doesn’t know that it’s really a swear…but of course the teacher knows exactly what we’re saying and they’re rolling their eyes because they can’t handle talking to you about it one more fucking time and the depression is just strangling them.