It’s good for national security in case there’s a war, but even if there isn’t one it’s still good for the environment, either way it’s good.
Even if you don’t phase out fossil fuels immediately, at least get them from the same continent so they don’t have to be shipped across oceans. Russia and Iran are literally nextdoor and pipelines and trains are much less polluting than tankers.
Theoretically, in terms of raw energy use per ton, sure, but in practice tankers run on diesel whereas most modern trains are electric.
Then it becomes a question of how you generate that electricity. It shifts the problem from the vehicle itself to the generation, which is a step forward as there are also efficiency gains in going from individual power generation, such as combustion engines, to big national grids.
There are huge investments being made by China in transitioning away from fossil fuels, with enormous production of solar capacity, as well as being at the forefront of nuclear technology development, and most recently news also dropped about an absolutely gigantic new hydropower dam being built.
So yes, if you could connect big ocean-faring tankers to a clean energy grid somehow, they would be more efficient just in terms of how the math works out. But in practice they are still major polluters at the moment.
I guess one possibility would be sticking nuclear reactors on tankers and cargo ships to power them cleanly like has been done with subs and carriers, but that opens up a whole other set of issues including geopolitical ones.
USA is weird in that regard, because USA have less electrified railways than Uzbekistan. Post-Soviet railways in comparison are absolutely dominated by electric trains.
There actually is some consideration for nuclear powered tankers for this exact purpose, along with the fact that refueling would not be much of an issue, there’s less need to stop. Iirc China has done a small amount of work on this concept a few years ago but I don’t habe anything saved unfortunately.
The largest issues that were being discussed actually didn’t habe to do with geopolitics, but the economic feasibility of it. Even if they were to be more efficient, oil isn’t at a price where nuclear tankers are economically superior.
The other issue was in regards to environmental concerns I case a tanker happened to sink, but honestly that same issue applies to oil, and nuclear material in the ocean is honestly less dangerous then oil when it comes to a habitat, though the danger would likely come from tracking decay material moving along with a current, which could contaminate food.
Geopolitics would probably become a concern if a suitable design was finished, because then it would no longer be a theoretical concept but an actual practical technology. I’d imagine different countries, especially the US, would oppose other countries using it while Fearing that if a ship gotten taken due to piracy (or stopping a genocide perhaps) it would then give the ones apprehending the ships a nuclear reactor, nuclear fuel, nuclear decay and products.
Though I could imagine China building a few at some point if they can streamline its production and oil prices surge for a considerable amount of time (like if the US invaded Iran). The technology isn’t exactly in its infancy, considering air craft carriers and submarines use the same nuclear power process, it’s political/economic will.
Great info, thanks! I read about a few prototypes and proposals for nuclear powered cargo ships but i think the general inertia of diesel based shipping as an industry is just too big for the time being, so we’re still a ways away from that. But yeah i could see shipping becoming the cleanest and most efficient option in the future, as it was historically for a very long time.
It’s good for national security in case there’s a war, but even if there isn’t one it’s still good for the environment, either way it’s good.
Even if you don’t phase out fossil fuels immediately, at least get them from the same continent so they don’t have to be shipped across oceans. Russia and Iran are literally nextdoor and pipelines and trains are much less polluting than tankers.
Trains are less polluting than tankers? I thought large ships were more efficient than trains?
Edit: there’s a lot of information about this, but this discussion on
was the first I found. It gives some math about why ships are best: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/33k5rw/why_does_shipping_by_water_use_less_energy_than/
Theoretically, in terms of raw energy use per ton, sure, but in practice tankers run on diesel whereas most modern trains are electric.
Then it becomes a question of how you generate that electricity. It shifts the problem from the vehicle itself to the generation, which is a step forward as there are also efficiency gains in going from individual power generation, such as combustion engines, to big national grids.
There are huge investments being made by China in transitioning away from fossil fuels, with enormous production of solar capacity, as well as being at the forefront of nuclear technology development, and most recently news also dropped about an absolutely gigantic new hydropower dam being built.
So yes, if you could connect big ocean-faring tankers to a clean energy grid somehow, they would be more efficient just in terms of how the math works out. But in practice they are still major polluters at the moment.
I guess one possibility would be sticking nuclear reactors on tankers and cargo ships to power them cleanly like has been done with subs and carriers, but that opens up a whole other set of issues including geopolitical ones.
Great points about fully electric trains; most discussions on this assume diesel electric trains.
USA is weird in that regard, because USA have less electrified railways than Uzbekistan. Post-Soviet railways in comparison are absolutely dominated by electric trains.
Communism = Soviet Power + Electrification of the Whole
CountryRailway NetworkUS ditched everything for cars quite early, it was the “modern country” and during the 20-30s cars were the BIG flashy futuristic thing.
There actually is some consideration for nuclear powered tankers for this exact purpose, along with the fact that refueling would not be much of an issue, there’s less need to stop. Iirc China has done a small amount of work on this concept a few years ago but I don’t habe anything saved unfortunately.
The largest issues that were being discussed actually didn’t habe to do with geopolitics, but the economic feasibility of it. Even if they were to be more efficient, oil isn’t at a price where nuclear tankers are economically superior.
The other issue was in regards to environmental concerns I case a tanker happened to sink, but honestly that same issue applies to oil, and nuclear material in the ocean is honestly less dangerous then oil when it comes to a habitat, though the danger would likely come from tracking decay material moving along with a current, which could contaminate food.
Geopolitics would probably become a concern if a suitable design was finished, because then it would no longer be a theoretical concept but an actual practical technology. I’d imagine different countries, especially the US, would oppose other countries using it while Fearing that if a ship gotten taken due to piracy (or stopping a genocide perhaps) it would then give the ones apprehending the ships a nuclear reactor, nuclear fuel, nuclear decay and products.
Though I could imagine China building a few at some point if they can streamline its production and oil prices surge for a considerable amount of time (like if the US invaded Iran). The technology isn’t exactly in its infancy, considering air craft carriers and submarines use the same nuclear power process, it’s political/economic will.
Great info, thanks! I read about a few prototypes and proposals for nuclear powered cargo ships but i think the general inertia of diesel based shipping as an industry is just too big for the time being, so we’re still a ways away from that. But yeah i could see shipping becoming the cleanest and most efficient option in the future, as it was historically for a very long time.
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